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York Potash Petition Faked

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York Potash Petition Faked

  • a bulletin from TIM THORNE on a further suspicion of foul-play in the planning process of the York Potash Ltd planning application to mine polyhalites from beneath the North York Moors National Park.



A petition in support of the proposed York Potash polyhalite mine near Whitby is being investigated by the North York Moors National Park Authority after it emerged that the names of Whitby and Scarborough residents were falsely added.

Two Real Whitby contributors had their names added to a 38 Degrees petition in support of the York Potash Project. The petition was started by Phil Waddingham, a regular poster on the iii investor bulletin board.

Perusal of other names added to the petition reveals that well known pseudonyms of other iii regulars have been added to the petition, as well as what is thought to be their real names.

The 3,000+ e-signature petition in support of the York Potash Project Polyhalite mine near Whitby was initially displayed on the North York Moors National Park Authority website as third party correspondence in support of the planning application.

In the wake of allegations of faked names being added to the petition in support of the mine, the North York Moors National Park Authority has now removed the petition from the Planning Application documentation whilst they investigate further.

The underhanded methods in which support for the mine had been gathered can only reflect badly on the York Potash Project as a whole. This clearly needs investigation and it is now a matter for the North York Moors National Park Authority to determine the validity and credibility of the petition.

Other York Potash Articles:

Potash project thrown into chaos

More NYMNPA York Potash Conflicted Interests

Tim Lawn you cant be Sirius by Private Eye magazine

From York Potash With Love


Posted by on May 31, 2013. Filed under Featured,News. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0. You can leave a response or trackback to this entry

143 Responses to York Potash Petition Faked

  1. Vanda Reply

    May 31, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    I blame Joe Plant, just testing to see if I have been banished!

  2. Vanda Reply

    May 31, 2013 at 6:44 pm

    BTW, not a good day for a site visit, school holidays, I bet the roads were jam packed. I understand the Whitby Gazette is spouting about Chris France’s ‘disappointment’. anyone got a hard copy, am too krackered to get to the shops. I fear something liquid and cold is looming.

    Anyhow, back to Phil Waddington, seems like a decent bloke, done his research, very generous of him to share his enthusiasm with the world, transparency and accountabilty say so much. Pity York Potash haven’t ‘discussed’ the Void Space. (why the heck don’t they do a deal with the MoD? Chris France is looking for some added value, external to the project. All things now being equal ….!

  3. Glenn Kilpatrick Reply

    May 31, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    Told you them lot off that investor site were up to no good. Some of them tried to intimidate me via email, one threatened legal action off the “best solicitors money could buy”. Ive watched them plot against real whitby on their website as I followed links back from my analytics. To be honest they are some of the most unpleasant people I have ever dealt with. Non of them from Whitby, IP’s all over the world, no interest in the town and all driven by greed. Horrible people and this news doesnt surprise me one bit. This whole Potash business stinks to high heaven.

  4. Vanda Reply

    May 31, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    “Discretion being the best part of Valour”, Glen, fancy a game of Russian Roulette? sorry, best sign off, its kinda like I got a limit. Have a great weekend!!

  5. Tim Thorne Reply

    May 31, 2013 at 7:55 pm

    I wasn’t really surprised at their behaviour. Some of our other readers might be.

    I believe some of their regular posters are actually employed by York Potash as PR drones to artificially keep the share price as high as possible. I’ve identified two some time ago. They both try to maintain the facade they are actually private investors who happen to use most of their waking hours to promote Sirius shares. The higher the share price, the more investment they obtain for the mine.

    • Martin Rudd Reply

      June 1, 2013 at 1:24 am

      Tim, I appreciate that you are passionate but please try to be objective, factual, truthful and beyond reproach. This is what you expect of others and what we all hope for in published articles.

      • Tim Thorne Reply

        June 1, 2013 at 12:27 pm

        This article reports the facts of the matter. Like the typical SXX investor, you’re just unhappy because you don’t like the content.

  6. Jane Swales Reply

    May 31, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    The instigators of the York Potash Proposal must be supremely satisfied with the way the application is heading; down the drain, exactly as intended. They may not lose any money, but the ordibary people of the Park, believing all too easily what they so desperately wanted to believe, will lose a great deal – in some cases mnore than they can afford. If not for Real Whitby there could have been many more of them, my husband and I included. Thank you Real Whitby for your vigilance!

  7. Vanda Reply

    May 31, 2013 at 9:26 pm

    Seriously Glen, the RW ‘harassment’ is from the bottom up, not top down. Looking at the Big Top there is Scrimshaw – an outright capitalist who I cant imagine giving a flying trapeze for RW nor the Park, Catlow – the strong man (distracted) who will only come in if support is needed. The ‘clowns’ who are IMO now surplus to requirements, etc etc. Fraser is the ‘straight-man’ and the ‘Project Genius’, the ‘Man on a Mission’. At the bottom of the pile are the ‘shareholders’ or PI’s who are just wind up merchants with some spare dosh and time to play with, who just need to be fed occasionally. Then, unfortunately, in the middle is the NYMPA, who are under immense pressure and scrutiny, whilst being under resourced and under valued, and quite possibly at breaking point. Who, if they are not very careful could find themselves being sued out of existence. As for you and me, we are just spectators and commentators to the circus. There is a plan. A big plan. And with any good plan there is always an exit strategy. It is the exit strategy that puzzles me. Sometimes I wonder with every project hiccup this exit strategy is being played out, even perhaps using the NYMNPA as scapegoats. Though I am hoping Fraser has yet to play his Aces. And that is worth looking forward too. Isn’t it? Given time, all will out.

  8. Martin Rudd Reply

    May 31, 2013 at 9:41 pm

    I truly hope that the planning application gets resolved soon. It is disheartening to see the bad in people outburst for very public view. I am talking on both sides here. It’s so disappointing. I recognise that it is an emotive subject but the vitriol and negativity on show really makes one question where the moral standards in our society have gone.

    • Vanda Reply

      June 1, 2013 at 7:38 am

      The shareholders clearly haven’t heard of the Hostage Exchange Programme, in some circles I think they call it a Diplomatic Core. There is a problem with these cyber wars, it is far too easy to get stuck in with all guns blazing. I may come across as a doom and gloom merchant, that is so far from reality. Kill ‘em with kindness is always the best strategy, in my book. Only when that doesn’t work then stick the boot in. (metaphorically speaking, of course)

      These are shallow times. I hate the internet. One click and your gone!

  9. Vanda Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 7:19 am

    re Whitby Gazette

    It seems that Chris France is attempting to re-draw the boundaries of the battle ground, albeit at this late stage. Putting some distance between “both sides” before the final front.

    Fraser has made his move/stance by refusing to submit more info. But, that allows France to take his back from off the wall and fire some shots.

    Before the ‘final decision’ it is good and healthy that there is some breathing space, and distance.

  10. james kilpatrick Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 8:24 am

    Well my name wasn’t fake and all my family members , a few messing about won’t spoil the true local support for it.

  11. Tim Thorne Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    The investor sites are full of very obsessed people. I see they’re now encouraging the 3,000+ people who signed the petition to write to Chris France (as if the guy doesn’t have enough to do!) and ask for the petition to be reinstated. The NYMNPA might do that after they’ve investigated the matter. Silly people…

  12. Sergio Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    90% of those names were real and you all know that to be the case.

    they are fully supporting something that could make a huge difference to the local community for generations.

    check my IP by all means, my wifes family are from Scarborough, she had to move away from the area after graduating due to a lack of work in the area, what does that tell you ?

    we now live in Kent with family still in the Scarborough and Whitby area

    show this or dont, i dont mind, but the PP will happen, if its not on July 2nd then by the SOS when this gets referred back to central govt, hopefully local government will keep control of this and approve with conditions it has control off – central govt wont be so kind

    • Tim Thorne Reply

      June 1, 2013 at 7:27 pm

      “90% of those names were real and you all know that to be the case.”

      My name is real and it was most certainly faked. I wonder which iii regular thought it would be funny to add my name? I bet he isn’t laughing now.

      • Sergio Reply

        June 1, 2013 at 11:18 pm

        Dear Tim, are you the only Tim Thorne in the entire world ?

        • Tim Thorne Reply

          June 2, 2013 at 12:13 am

          No, but I can say with 100% certainty that the entry on the petition is a fake and has been falsified.

          • Sergio Reply

            June 2, 2013 at 6:24 am

            wow, all of a sudden you’ve become inspector morse, you’re wasted in your current role Tim, wasted.

            took me 20 secs using this to detect that their are at least 91 Tim Thornes (and variations thereof) in the UK


            could have been any one of these couldn’t it ?

            • Tim Thorne Reply

              June 2, 2013 at 1:18 pm

              No. If you have conclusive proof it wasn’t faked and falsely added to the petition, then prove your hair-brained theory.

  13. Al Gerino Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    The people on that share site are not very smart. Their response to what appears to be the temporary removal of their petition is to bombard Mr France with over 3000 emails. Denying Mr France the use of his official email box would surely be classed as a deliberate distributed denial of service attack on the NYMNPA. I would imagine they’ll be calling the Police in if that happens.

  14. Real Whitby Webmaster Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Sometimes I think some people from Whitby actually need protecting from theemselves. I am forever astounded by the sheer stupidity of some Whitby people. Just reading the gazette the other day and its clear so many people think this is the answer to them not having a job. They don’t seem to realise that for every job created 1 or 2 or more jobs could be lost in the tourism industry if the national park and our town are spoilt. I really believe that a great many people in Whitby and even North Yorkshire dont understand the importance of a national park, they dont understand why it is a national park and they dont understand that their place of birth puts them slap bang in the middle of one of the most beautiful, scenic and important places in the whole of the world. Its always been my viewpoint, (and not just since the potash issue) that if you allow the creep to begin, Industry, Mcdonalds, Weatherpersons, Sainsburies, Homebase then you start to damage something that was unique, you start to undo a very special place. Soon we will be something like Middlesbrough by the sea. Why not errect a few steelworks whilst your on with the job ? People come to Whitby because its unspoilt, they come to the moors because its stunning, the heather is amazing, the wildlife is beyond words. People come to the coast because the landscape is awesome. Start screwing with that fine balance and you will put the future of the whole area in jeopardy. Guest houses out of business, pubs empty, restaurants all closing. Wake up people of Whitby and realise what it is you have been lucky enough to be born into, there is nowhere like this anywhere else on the planet, dont ruin it.

    • G Smith Reply

      June 24, 2013 at 4:55 pm

      Real whitby webmaster? I think you should consider your words more carefully? Whitby people need protecting from thereselves and their own stupidity? Might it be their opinion just differs from yours ? That doesn’t make them stupid or you correct. And for the record I own a business in whitby and live in the national parks not too far away from the mine site and I am all for it. But I suppose I would be, being from whitby and stupid.

  15. james kilpatrick Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 6:45 pm

    What shall the people of Whitby do for work ? Less and less decent jobs every year , let’s all move away and leave it as s lovely ghost town .
    I travel 150 miles a day as a sparky , has every one got a b&b ?
    We need a change ,will we stop the wind farms off dogger bank next ?
    Pubs and restaurants already closed , Sirius employees perminant residents of the town spending money or tourists now and again if the weather is ok , another wash out summer and where’s the money comming from ?

    • Vanda Reply

      June 1, 2013 at 7:15 pm

      James, are Sirius just ‘tourists’? please discuss.

    • Tim Thorne Reply

      June 1, 2013 at 7:22 pm

      The wind farms will get built, but I doubt Whitby will be a base for any of it. Though the Borough did receive a multi-million pound grant to help bring the work here. Where did that money get spent?

      The number of jobs created locally is still not defined. I’ve seen people question the figure of 700 jobs and say it will be half that. How many of those will actually live in Whitby? Less than half?

      If the tourism figures are right, is it really worth taking £7million out of the tourism economy for the sake of a couple of hundred jobs?

  16. Vanda Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 7:07 pm

    Just got in with Gazette, reading between the lines, sounds like France is really fed up with the PR company; Carmague? Anyone? DYOR! back later.

    PS this is a mine they are building not a monastery. BTW there are plans for a Monastic Blding in the Park, anyone care to check this out or is it down to yours truly, see ya later.

  17. Vanda Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 7:10 pm

    Keep fighting your corner James!

  18. james kilpatrick Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 7:38 pm

    Whitby needs jobs and its worth fighting for

  19. james kilpatrick Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    If 300 locals get jobs thats money spent week on week in the town .
    Going out for meals , a drink , having money to spend around the home .
    Money earned in the town spent in the town

    • Tim Thorne Reply

      June 1, 2013 at 8:59 pm

      If the tourism report is accurate and there will be £7million lost per annum because of the mine, then 350 people earning £20k per year will lose their jobs. A bad trade?

      • Vanda Reply

        June 1, 2013 at 9:53 pm

        Its not quite as simple as that,I’ve ignored the tourist reports to date because they are just that, reports, and I prefer to read what they do not print. ;-) Jobs in the Tourism Industry here are mainly part-time, temporary and seasonal and though may fit in with many life-style choices, particularly with women who need added income to support their families, they certainly won’t be paid £ 20k per year. Unless of course there was an all year round indoor tourist attraction. As Glenn points out our National Park is unique and should not be ruined. But what IF our NP or visitors area could be enhanced? Perhaps some added value mini ‘project’ external to the mine site, say on the ‘constructors village’ at Whitby Business Park. For example a mini one of these. In fact I would get the construction companies to help pay for it. Using the same design schematic for the mine, using the excess materials it shouldn’t cost that much. But whaddoiknow? Any how here is the link for the business park consultation: (yet another jargon filled ‘process’ to endure)

      • Sergio Reply

        June 1, 2013 at 11:26 pm

        if the tourism report is right ? dear god, do you really think it is ? a hidden mine is going to stop people coming to whitby and the NYMNP – wake up Tim.

        generations of kids are leaving the area to find work, most tourism jobs are unskilled, minimun wage and weather dependant for the business owners, now unless you have found a way to magically move the area 900 odd miles due south to warmer climes i fear that the tourism is insufficient for the area to revitalise.

        a unique opportunity like this should be applauded and made welcome to the area, not ant any cost mind you, but welcomed all the same.

        • Sergio Reply

          June 1, 2013 at 11:32 pm

          with the greatest respect here Tim, who earns £384 a week in the tourist industry locally, pray tell ? maybe you could point me in the direction of these well paid jobs locally which by your rational seem to be abundant

          *350 jobs at £20k a year

          where would these jobs be lost ? explain this to me (serious question)

          • Tim Thorne Reply

            June 2, 2013 at 12:16 am

            “where would these jobs be lost”

            Who can tell, but the writers of the tourism report are pretty sure the new mine will affect tourism significantly.

            • Sergio Reply

              June 2, 2013 at 6:14 am

              Tim, your argument is lacking, woefully in fact, if you seriously think that report holds weight then i think you are mistaken.

              they have quite literally plucked figures out of the sky for it.

              i have never gone somewhere and beforehand thought i would change my mind due to some building work miles away from where from where i am going.

              its like going to cleethorpes for the day and not going because they are doing some building work at Immingham Gas Terminal – not going to happen is it.

              wake up man, the area needs it, the country needs it, our future food security for the UK needs it, this isnt a developer building some fancy houses, its a nationally important business which just happens to be on your doorstep.

              • Tim Thorne Reply

                June 2, 2013 at 1:27 pm

                “you seriously think that report holds weight then i think you are mistaken”

                You’re a Sirius Investor. You wouldn’t recognise an objective comment if it was made in a 200 metre tall neon sign outside your front window.

                “the area needs it”

                According to the tourism report, the mine will suck £7milion per annum out of the tourism economy. It will likely take more out of the area than it will put in, doing great harm.

                “the country needs it”

                We do need to improve the balance of payments.

                “our future food security for the UK needs it”

                That’s just a pack of lies. UK food security is best served by keeping the polyhalite in the ground until the supplies from Boulby run dry.

                The vast majority of the polyhalite mined is destined for export. It is most certainly NOT being mined to improve UK food security. It is being mined to line the pockets of investors. That is not a good reason to spoil the National Park.

              • G Smith Reply

                June 24, 2013 at 5:06 pm

                Well said you took the words out my mouth like a car full of tourists would be like hey shal we go to whitby or Scarborough oh we’ll go to Scarborough as there’s an underground mine miles outside of whitby! As if!

          • Matt Williamson Reply

            June 2, 2013 at 12:30 am

            The majority of this comment has been edited out by Glenn Kilpatrick. Below is just the first sentence of the comment. This is a prime example of the type of person we are dealing with here. Like I said in my comment above, some of the most unpleasant people Ive ever dealt with, and then they wonder why you filter out and remove their comments suggesting you have done something very wrong by deleting their rudeness.

            Sergio – there’s no point asking serious questions to Dim Thorne or I-Vanda-raise-my-profile-for-my-political-career. They either ignore it or will ban you.

  20. Vanda Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 8:04 pm

    Has anyone bothered to do any research on whether or not planning applications to the NYMNPA have increased significantly whilst this Potash Planning Application is in? No, thought not. Strewth!

  21. james kilpatrick Reply

    June 1, 2013 at 10:21 pm

    Vanda your right 20k in Whitby working in tourism , just above minimum wage is nearer the mark , I would rap in as a spark if I could get 20 k serving chips .

    • Real Whitby Webmaster Reply

      June 2, 2013 at 1:19 am

      To assume that those 20,000 are skirting around minimum wage is quite some assumption James. Can you back up that claim ?

      • Sergio Reply

        June 2, 2013 at 6:17 am

        RWW James is implying that a 20k wage is ridiculous working in tourism in whitby, he would give up working as an electrician and be happy to serve chips to tourists, if you could point him and myself to the plethora of jobs paying £384 a week then i think we would be happy to reconsider our position

        • Real Whitby Webmaster Reply

          June 2, 2013 at 10:29 am

          This is the way of the world mate, this aint just Whitby. The Countries in a right mess, people eating from food banks struggling to pay bills. A mine aint going to cure that. Also your assumption that everyone employed in the tourist industry is doing badly is way off the mark, many business owners earn more than you could dream of. There are many successful tourism based business in Whitby. Guest houses, holiday lets, shops, cafes, pubs, restaurants, all bringing in good money for their owners. I would also wager a bet than many of these business provide a large amount of work for local electriceans, infact I know they. Back to tourism, The last research suggested that a mine could damage the tourism industry to the tune of £40,000 000 a year. How many jobs does that remove from our town ? at a guess its far more than a mine will create. Has anyone given any thought to what happens if tourists stop coming ? We have a perfect example of this just to the north, a small town with no tourists, biggest employer in the town is a near by potash mine, shops boarded up, pubs boarded up, kids hanging about all day because there is no work for them, busiest shop on the high street ??? Ladbrooks. Where is this town ? Loftus. You want that for your kids futures ?

          • Sergio Reply

            June 2, 2013 at 12:03 pm

            £40 mill a year lost because another business brings work and prospects to your area / town – you really couldn’t make it up could you

            i go to seaside towns with my family regularly, i wouldnt make that decision based on building work, maybe if the whole seafront was being redeveloped but certainly not miles outside the town hidden away from view

            you should see this as mine as a positive, PP should be granted with the caveat of conditions being decided upon by local govt, a no to PP at this stage will inevitably see the applicant appealing, the decision being referred to the Secretary of State and PP being granted as its in the national interest with conditions from central govt, keep it local, say yes and get involved with the company to make sure things go smoothly – easy when you think laterally about it

            your rant about mcdonalds and sainsburys springing up in the NYMNP is farcical by the way, no one, including myself would agree to that, they are not important, this mine is.

            • Vanda Reply

              June 2, 2013 at 12:46 pm

              “the caveat of conditions being decided upon by local govt” – your almost there Sergio. Do carry on …

            • Glenn Kilpatrick Reply

              June 2, 2013 at 3:08 pm

              The mine isnt important to Whitby, its almost insignificant. In a years time when the whole thing has gone tits up we will all be getting on with our lives just like we did after the last mine proposal was thrown out. And no, you couldnt make up the £40,000000 story, its real, its on the desks of the planning committee.

          • james kilpatrick Reply

            June 2, 2013 at 12:08 pm

            Nail on head business OWNERS .
            What about the staff , the normal people are you forgetting about them ?
            Are we getting to the point that people on this site are all tourists business owners ……..

            • Tim Thorne Reply

              June 2, 2013 at 2:17 pm

              “Nail on head business OWNERS”

              You too can make your own local business, if there is a market for the services you provide or goods you sell.

              If we go the route of getting multi-nationals in, then there will be no local business owners. Better to have better paid local business owners than that money flow out of the town into the pockets of shareholders?

              • Glenn Kilpatrick Reply

                June 2, 2013 at 3:13 pm

                Are we somehow suggesting that the thousands of people owning and renting out thier homes as holiday lets, b&b’s and guesthouses are not making a living from the tourist industry ? Is Richard Natrass and his pubs not making his living out of the same trade, the goths and everyone else who drink in his establishments Dave Agnew and Family ? Dave Elliss and family ? All these people and many more make a very good living from tourism, with a bit of initiative many others could too. Like I say, what is it you want your kids to grow up into ? Budding entrepreneurs or the shell suited idiots outside Ladbrookes??

                • james kilpatrick Reply

                  June 2, 2013 at 3:44 pm

                  Probably do make good money , but what do the staff get paid?.
                  So everyone needs to own a fish and chip shop or a b&b .
                  How many fish and chip shops and b&b ‘s can whitby take ?

                  • james kilpatrick Reply

                    June 2, 2013 at 3:52 pm

                    That’s enough talking from me for now , I’m off rowing training.
                    The suns out and work on Monday , posting on here all day won’t beat Scarborough!!!!!!!!!.

          • Sergio Reply

            June 8, 2013 at 9:44 am

            Morning RWW – what an interesting set of figures these are from ERS – good to see the delay allowing the LOCAL authority more time to get their conditions right for this project.


            £940mill a year added to the local economy – £1.4 billion to UK GDP

            yes thats £940million a year allegedly, pretty much offsets the now adjusted £35mill alleged loss on tourism

            i could go on but what a waste of a beautiful day outside

            • Vanda Reply

              June 8, 2013 at 10:46 am

              Morning Sergio, when I’ve got more than five minutes and a postage stamp to spare the shredding will begin. Its cloudy and cold here, so happy days, enjoy them while they last xx

              • Sergio Reply

                June 8, 2013 at 5:14 pm

                wonderful day in the sunshine here, spent mainly playing outdoors with my young son, shred away, not that will it will make a blind bit of difference, mrs vandashred

                • Vanda Reply

                  June 8, 2013 at 8:18 pm

                  Good to hear it Sergio, however I am sure St George didn’t slay his Dragon by thinking he was anything other than a monster! We all have personal lives, gladly accepted, each to our own. So lets stick to business. The latest socio-economic report is crucial, it could be the only lynch pin that is holding this project together. If the economics don’t add up then there is nowt for Sirius here. IMO only of course. Have a great week- end you and all. Will let you know I find anything or not.

                  • Sergio Reply

                    June 9, 2013 at 6:58 pm

                    laughable if you think that the latest socio economic report is the lynchpin – lets cut to the chase, how long have you been invested in Sirius Vanda ? seems your objectivity could be a mask for your investment in this company, have you declared your interest yet ?

                    • Vanda

                      June 9, 2013 at 7:48 pm

                      Oh its all about the economics Sergio, if the ERS report is credible it could go a long way to addressing the negative impacts. Cut to the chase, my interest in Sirius, none. That was too easy. Though there is a crazy side to me that really likes this crazy project. Must be the prospect of explosions, ground shaking seismic shifting etc that could be fun, well it would have been had the mineshaft been in Cloughton. Do they still use dynamite or cemtex or what? I note many of the shareholders have interests in oil and gas, but then they don’t have to drill for that in a National Park, do they?


                    • Sergio

                      June 10, 2013 at 9:25 am

                      they dont have to look for that in national park, but then again, the worlds largest high grade deposit is where it is, right there and the way into is there, im pretty sure the company would have preferred to not have to deal with national park issue, but they do, they are, and are dealing with it admirably i might add.

                      give in Vanda, invest, you might even make a better life for you and your family, you might even make enough money to start your own website

                    • Vanda

                      June 10, 2013 at 10:43 am

                      Do you know what Sergio, right now this very minute If I hear the word York Potash again I am going to bang my head against the nearest brick wall and labotomise myself. But I wont because I know I am on the winning side. Back later x

      • Sergio Reply

        June 2, 2013 at 6:18 am

        RWW James is implying that a 20k wage is ridiculous working in tourism in whitby, he would give up working as an electrician and be happy to serve chips to tourists, if you could point him and myself to the plethora of jobs paying £20k a year then i think we would be happy to reconsider our position

  22. Vanda Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 6:57 am


    I don’t have a political career. Though I will and do encourage others to do so to get involved in the decision making processes.

    My support for the Labour Party is because it best fits my core values. I work hard for them. they do not work for me. I aspire to be a socialist.

  23. Vanda Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 7:01 am

    Sergio seems to have lost the plot, understandably so if that is Phil, believe me you’ve got off lightly. I never miss a trick. However, somethings are better overlooked….

    • Sergio Reply

      June 2, 2013 at 7:08 am

      lost the plot, laughable !! come on vanda, you can do better than that surely ?

      • Vanda Reply

        June 2, 2013 at 7:42 am

        Sergio, some things are better left unsaid and undisputed. Choose your weapons carefully in future!

        • Sergio Reply

          June 2, 2013 at 8:52 am

          choose my weapons carefully ? come on Vanda, spit it out whats ‘better left unsaid’ ? time to put up or shut up

          • Vanda Reply

            June 2, 2013 at 11:09 am

            Shields Up!

  24. Vanda Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 7:30 am

    abbrvtd; The Whitby Gazette, paper version Page 5; Planning Chief: Potash people are ‘in denial’ – Park may have no choice but to reject mine.

    The head of planning at the NYM has given the strongest indication yet that the YP project may fail. In the face of fundamental objections form the EA & NE a “war of words” has erupted between the NP and Sirius.

    CF, director of planning said ” I just think they are in denial. You can’t put the world’s biggest potash mine in the middle of a national park and say its not going to have an impact. They just need to own up to that. People are going to notice there’s a huge industrial business in a tranquil area of the national park” …..

    The primary objection on the part of both organisations is the siting of an industrial plant in the centre of a national park, and the precedent this may set for future generations.

    “The objection is in principle” said Mr France.


    “I just cant understand why they are not coming up with the goods, If they resolved all this we might not have objections”

    “we will be making a decision on 2nd July, come what may.”

    Reports Vital, despite errors. ….. “QA research and are award winning market research company ….”

    YP’s own market research team, Carmargue, are a public relations company, not a market research company.

    So it is disingenuous to start criticising the QA research guys”

  25. Vanda Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 8:14 am

    Where there is suspicion there is doubt. This has to stop.

  26. james kilpatrick Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 9:03 am

    £7x 57 hrs £399 a week .
    For nearly 10 hours a day 6 days a week .
    £ 125 rent
    £ 80 food (£ 12 a day )
    £ 20 gas & electric
    £ 15 council tax
    £50 running a car
    £££££££ clothes , kids birthdays, school trips , Christmas saving , holidays if lucky enough,
    Hardly living like kings and if the weather’s bad , hours cut in winter .
    People are not skint , but just ticking over , and doing nearly 60 hours for it .

    • george Reply

      June 3, 2013 at 3:00 am

      James i quite agree with you im Whitby born and bread not like a lot of the people who are against something that will bring real jobs to our town not ones that pay low salary and are for a few months of the year.
      Gone are the days when many true Whitby people worked in the fishing industry gone are the days of lot of buses traveling to teeside to work at Wilton etc i for one worked in Scarborough after i left school as nothing in Whitby for the young just leaving school after 12 year that came to an end and i was lucky a company was in the area exploring for potash in the 1970s i got a job with them and ended working in the exploration industry all over the UK and many countries for 28 years till i retired i live overseas still but come back when i can to our great town lets give the real young Whitby born and bred kid a chance of a real job not washing dishes and cleaning tables.

  27. Vanda Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    Anyone know any fat itinerant workers from the East side who live chaotic lifestyles? lolololol

    Our local MP Goodwill

    Are you sure you want to build a mine here with this total imbecile as an MP?

  28. george conway Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 2:10 pm

    I see, so far, no mention of the existing alternative to a new mine i.e. Boubly Mine. Are they not going to extend their mining area, create new jobs etc etc.

    • Vanda Reply

      June 3, 2013 at 6:47 pm

      my view on that was edited out; here it is/was: as per E=MC2 original: ‘So, the message received from Boulby is that we are here, we are now and there really is no need for A. N Other Pot Ash mine. Further, to reinforce that message ie there is no need for A N Other Pot Ash Mine, Boulby Mine, under CPL release news that they too intend to spend £ 300 mil investing in new plant and machinery etc subject to a planning application to extract more of the Potash that they claim there is no market for. & (NB I say too because the amount of £ 300 mil was a figure mooted at how much it would cost to buy out Sirius).’

  29. george conway Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 2:17 pm

    Dear Vanda

    I did not know that Scarborough has an East side as well. But none of this has much to do with this article’s subject matter neither has Robert Goodwill and if he is up to protecting Whitby Hospital then good for him would not expect anything else.

    • Vanda Reply

      June 3, 2013 at 5:55 pm

      I caught this over the weekend George – – was just waiting for the tag to be put on.

      Interestingly Goodwill discusses the Co2 sequestration and the role that nucleur energy plays in the future.

      As for Whitby Hospital, I bring this up because I had heard they had closed the A & E Department. Is that true? Surely if they were building a mine in the locality then keeping the A & E department open, as well as the hospital. would be an external benefit to the project and Whitby Town.

      Am just looking at the indirect benefits of the mine as well as the direct benefits, ok?

      As for Goodwill, his role is this project needs to be scrutinised, whatever the outcome. His suggestion and stereotyping a whole residential area of Whitby, ie East Side, I find very offensive. IMO as per usual Goodwill cant even talk the talk let alone walk the walk. I find his attitude very poor. Still he has the mandate of the people.

      Whilst you may think many of my comments here are off topic, there is a lot of tension on ‘both sides’. Phil Waddingham, along with other shareholders have conducted immense research on this Project. As have the contributors to Real Whitby. If we choose to communicate by public message boards then so be it. At the very least we are communicating, that means listening as well as pushing forward our views/opinions. Are you suggesting we should all shut up just because Robert Goodwill, our MP may get a bloody nose?

      Check out his RoI. and follow that through. DYOR, but please do not, insult our intelligence by suggesting we should not use the tools that are available to us. This Project is important. Whilst putting at risk our NP etc, it could also be the flagship design of global mining.

  30. Tom Brown Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    SWALLOW IT, SIRIUS IS INTENDING TO PROCESS LOW GRADE NUCLEAR WASTE. After all for every cubic foot of potash mined, the void will be filled with something of a greater value.

  31. Vanda Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 8:41 pm

    Tom, when I flap my wings I fly!

  32. Vanda Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 9:27 pm

  33. Jon Owen Reply

    June 2, 2013 at 9:54 pm

    Hi Vanda

    I’ve copied your 7-30 synopsis of the WG print piece to K&S, as they are asking.


    • Vanda Reply

      June 2, 2013 at 10:27 pm

      Hi Jon, if you have an email address I would send you a copy! post it on LSE

      • Vanda Reply

        June 2, 2013 at 10:38 pm

        tsokay see you’ve already got part of it. G’nite

  34. Chris Pickering Reply

    June 3, 2013 at 11:00 am

    Notice today the petition has been reinstated that will upset the nimbys, they don’t need a petition it’s pretty clearly most locals support the project, I’m pretty surprised all the negative comments how the hell will it affect tourism, it’s in a remote part of the park were people don’t visit, the national park told me today that the recent tourism report was flawed,

    This project will create jobs and as for peeps that call me son and think I’m an iii poster I seriously laugh I have about 1000 shares in the company I’m not exactly the devil of wall st,

    My own bias is that I would love to work in my local area and be able to use my degree, I cannot understand the objections, all this nuke waste talk is unhelpful,

    I agree the project will impact the environment for a period of time but it can be repaired most of the work will be underground, any project on this scale will have a huge effect but its not going to be lasting, the bonus for myself is that the area in question is not a beautiful part of the park, I hope objectors can see via all the nonsense and hyper bole being created and focus on one jobs, and see the mine and the park as the same thing.

  35. Neil Perrins Reply

    June 3, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Is the purpose of this site to bring information to the people or propaganda to the people?

    I don’t understand how anyone could think anyone will be persuaded by comments like:

    “Some of them tried to intimidate me via email, one threatened legal action off the “best solicitors money could buy”. Ive watched them plot against real whitby on their website as I followed links back from my analytics. To be honest they are some of the most unpleasant people I have ever dealt with”

    People don’t do this unless you upset them (the comment “I’ve always had bad neighbours wherever I go.” is met with “Have you worked out the common feature, yet?”)

    Then there is “I believe some of their regular posters are actually employed by York Potash as PR drones to artificially keep the share price as high as possible.”

    No wonder you get threats of legal action. And why would the company want the SP artificially high? That can be bad for a business. Much more reasonable is that the people on the web-site are not employed by the web-site and want to keep the SP artificially high. They have a direct benefit. What someone “believes” is up to them, but persuading others requires facts or common sense.

    Oh and:

    “Pity York Potash haven’t ‘discussed’ the Void Space. (why the heck don’t they do a deal with the MoD? Chris France is looking for some added value, external to the project.”

    What does ” haven’t ‘discussed’ ” mean. Spit it out. Have they said they are not going to use the void space or not? Is the PP application DEPENDENT on them NOT using the space?

    “why the heck don’t they do a deal with the MoD?” This implies that they are not dealing with the MoD…but it doesn’t say so because… that would be a lie.

    It is refreshing to see a balanced view here from Martin Rudd (and no, I do not know him). This is a painful period. One side is going to be happy the other is not. The people of both sides are human beings. I do not believe that the “anti” lobby want to stop jobs for the fun of it (the joy of a view or a walk over the Moors is irreplaceable), neither do I believe the “pro” lobby are solely in it for the money/jobs (the local/national interest and an attempt to increase world food production are laudable aims – please, let’s not get into whether it is need or not, greater production leads to lower potash cost and cheaper food. End of it.).

    Daemonising either side is a natural emotive response, but it is just not rational. The sooner this is resolved the better.

    • Real Whitby Webmaster Reply

      June 3, 2013 at 10:41 pm

      No wonder you get threats of legal action.

      Usually a threat of legal action would come in the form of a letter from a solicitor, not in an email rant from a made up email address and a hidden IP. I dont believe for one moment it was areal threat of legal action, I do believe it was underhand tactics of someone who doesnt like people who offer a different viewpoint. If I threatened legal action on everyone I had disagreed with in life id never be out of the solicitors office. Thankfully Im a bigger person than that and can accept people have different points of view, I think you need to get over yourself really. I stick to the point I made, the people involved in this whole thing are very unpleasant. Funny what effect money has on peoples ability to be above board, pleasant, polite and nice. If it wasnt for the fact some local people want to discuss this subject id take it off the site completely because Ive had more grief from people involved in discussing this mine than I have from anyone else discussing any other subject on the site. Your all like children in a playground. I hope you dont work for sirius as it puts them in a very bad light indeed.

  36. Vanda Reply

    June 3, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    only mildly interesting, based on figures up to 2012, page 7 of the appendix on the NYMNPA performance.

  37. Tim Thorne Reply

    June 3, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    It seems the Sirius Minerals CEO has had to apologise for the enthusiasm of shareholders after they spent the weekend filling up the email box of Chris France at NYMNPA.

    “Dear all,

    We have become aware through monitoring of this site about increasing correspondence flowing to Chris France at the North York Moors National Park.

    Whatever the positive intentions, I would urge either supporters or fellow shareholders to refrain from contact that unduly distracts the National Park Authority from its important role of reviewing our submissions and ultimately determining the York Potash planning application. We absolutely encourage positive contributions to the planning process through the normal and proper consultation channels. We are most grateful for the huge range of stakeholders that support this important application but the Authority must be allowed to focus on determining the application.

    We believe we have a compelling case for the application to be approved, but acknowledge that the planning system is neither a simple one, nor one that is particularly suited to the intense levels of scrutiny on every minor detail that this application has attracted. We are completely focussed on working as hard as we can within the planning system to achieve the approvals that the project requires.

    Also, as a company we have a policy of trying to avoid any attempts to draw us into any sensationalist headlines that media sources might seek to run.

    Thank you for your on-going support.


  38. Martin Rudd Reply

    June 3, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    Vanda – thanks very much for the link to the ‘building bridges’ article. It reads straight and true and is strong advert for maintaining communication at all costs – regardless of as fundamental a difference of beliefs as those to go to war over. Always keep the dialog open!

    One of the things that I feel is happening is people are inherently being polarized into one of a number of camps. I hope that when the dust settles, these camps have not burnt their bridges with each other. After all with or without the mine the community remains. For those who are looking to enhance their lives with some extra money via an investment or those seeking to protect the park from development – at the end of the day they will still be eating the same bread and drinking in the same pubs. I will trust that whatever the decision the community remains strong.

    Vanda, I do not post as frequently as I could (I’m generally a reader not a writer!) however please do post up any other literature you feel like sharing. I can assure you that I read as much as is possible with two small children and will try to squeeze in a response when there is a lull in the proverbial battle.

    Tim – how do you corrolate the comment by Chris Fraser with an apology? He mentions nothing of the sort – it is a request asking people not to contact Chris France directly.

    This would be part of a previous request of mine to be objective, truthful and beyond reproach. I understand I am but one voice and mine carries no more gravitas than another, but please try to understand that as you are an author of articles your comments are taken as an extension of the origin. If you comment subjectively then it disappointingly detracts from other points within the article and ensuing discourse.

    Neil, thank you very much for your kind comments and I enjoyed reading your entire comment – some really good and interesting points.

    With regards to the main content of the article, I read on the iii board that the details (address) of Phil Waddington were being checked and that the petition was about to be re-included into the planning documentation.

    An interesting piece of information within the same post on iii was that Chris France said that petitions such as these do not hold as much weight as independent research due to their potential for inaccuracy.

    It’s really good to see Chris Fraser taking the same stance as Chris France – both suggesting that the best way for this to proceed is to let everyone do their jobs and argue their cases in a professional and open manner (yes that’s somewhat subjectiveb statement, but a reasonable one I believe). Keeping the dialog (and the bridges, Vanda!) continually open.

    • Tim Thorne Reply

      June 3, 2013 at 7:37 pm

      Tim – how do you corrolate the comment by Chris Fraser with an apology?

      I don’t see Chris France being at all happy after being bombarded with what could have been hundreds of emails from enthusiastic shareholders. My guess would be that SXX and NYMNPA have talked today and the result was the message from Chris Fraser.

      • Martin Rudd Reply

        June 3, 2013 at 8:31 pm

        “My guess would be that SXX and NYMNPA have talked today”

        In my opinion, guessing should really be left out of this debate, Tim. Throwing a supposition onto Chris Fraser’s comment to passive-aggressively negatively slant him is uncouth.

        • Tim Thorne Reply

          June 3, 2013 at 9:28 pm

          Throwing a supposition onto Chris Fraser’s comment to passive-aggressively negatively slant him is uncouth.

          You’ve been reading too many poker books, playing too much online poker and you’ve not learnt how to read the player.

          Chris Fraser is obviously apologising for the behaviour of the iii posters and trying to curtail their enthusiasm causing further problems for the company. He’s mending bridges. A perfectly sensible thing to do.

          If that is a negative slant to you, then you’re too close to the iii side?

          • Martin Rudd Reply

            June 4, 2013 at 6:41 am

            Chris Fraser:
            We have become aware through monitoring of this site about increasing correspondence flowing to Chris France at the North York Moors National Park.

            Tim Thorne:
            My guess would be that SXX and NYMNPA have talked today

            There is nothing about contact with Chris France. There are also no words of apology in Chris Fraser’s entire request.

            My concern here Tim, is that your enthusiasm in taking your stance on this issue is clouding your judgement and objectivity.

            • Tim Thorne Reply

              June 4, 2013 at 11:04 pm

              You need to learn to read between the lines and not take everything at face value. I imagine your poker opponents treat you as a bank given you are so easy to read.

  39. Chris Pickering Reply

    June 3, 2013 at 7:41 pm

    The emails I think only demonstrates the vast support there is for this project I not so sure it’s only shareholder, today’s northern echo had a piece how it would b madness to decline this application, I honestly think this will happen it has to, come on let’s get that potash out and sold

  40. Vanda Reply

    June 4, 2013 at 5:55 am

    Not to be overlooked;

    ahem, product endorsement?

  41. Chris Pickering Reply

    June 4, 2013 at 5:59 am

    Wat a load of tosh well tell u what we have food shortages we not use potash, suppose we have to take this as part of the beauty of having a natural park

  42. Chris Pickering Reply

    June 4, 2013 at 6:43 am

    Load of rubbish, the company would never post on an open forum any news would be released via a statement released to the market,

  43. Vanda Reply

    June 4, 2013 at 7:55 am

    Mines v Monasteries. sorry to go off topic but am looking at the applications for Monasteries in the NP. This is just totally weird, and quite amusing so I thought I would share ; “we have a telephone but only five people have the number” lololol

    still not found the new build one I am looking for, mmmm this gets very interesting.

  44. Tom Brown Reply

    June 4, 2013 at 9:48 am

    Sadly Mother Thekla died in 2011 at Sneaton castle being left homeless due to ill health.
    Mother Thekla wrote the words to Sir John Taverners ‘Song to Athene’ and was greatly admired in the music world but of course when I informed the Whitby Gazette of her death ad funeral they just were not interested.

  45. James Irvine Reply

    June 4, 2013 at 1:27 pm

    What a ridiculous website this is. A glorified forum for a handful of petty-minded individuals intent on causing mischief on any topic they see fit, in order to satisfy their daily excitement quota.

    • Real Whitby Webmaster Reply

      June 4, 2013 at 4:27 pm

      Still read by 30,000 people a month.Maybe people like the ridiculous, gives them an escape from the mundane.

  46. Tom Brown Reply

    June 4, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Hello James, Your right and I apologise if I have transgressed. It seems that all forums are nothing but pion less gossip and the point always gets lost in the end.

  47. Vanda Reply

    June 4, 2013 at 11:51 pm

  48. Pete Budd Reply

    June 5, 2013 at 8:52 am

    I would like to see the national park with a viable agricultural and fishing economy. In the absence of either, I don’t think this mine proposal can reasonably be opposed and had it provided a small cargo trade for the port of whitby I could have argued that its influence would be much more good than bad, however tourism alone is just a theme park with a car park. We do need some economic and cultural integrity.

  49. james kilpatrick Reply

    June 5, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    A good common sense approach Pete , Whitby was for known for jet mining,rope making and fishing before tourism . We just need a good balance of industry and tourism

  50. james kilpatrick Reply

    June 5, 2013 at 5:25 pm

    A good common sense approach Pete , Whitby was for known for jet mining,rope making and fishing before tourism . We just need a good balance of industry and tourism

  51. Tom Brown Reply

    June 9, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    I live here and if the local authority (WHAT AUTHORITY? SCB THEY WOULDN’T WOULD THEY?!!) have been asked to accept nuclear waste then I want some of it.

    If our share of the bribe means only EUROPE WIDE EMPLOYMENT then whats in it for us??? DISASTER!!

  52. John King Reply

    June 28, 2013 at 7:28 am

    My Twopennorth, for what it’s worth.

    I don’t think that the tourist trade really is weather dependant. Many of the ‘tourist’ visitors to Whitby are walkers who are a hardy bunch. Many view the moors in wet, wild weather as being more scenic or ‘romantic’ (not MY opinion, but you wouldn’t catch me WALKING through the surrounding Dales if my life depended on it, lazy townie git that I am!) Many tourist visitors book up far in advance for event weekends such as Goth Weekend, the 40, 50, 60′s weekends, the Regatta, Soul Weekend, etc. When they get to Whitby, they make the best of it, whatever the weather. Personally, as a tourist visitor to Whitby, I’ve driven over from Middlesbrough for a day out at all times of the year. I’ve sat in The Shambles having lunch, looking out at the spring tides washing up the slipway at the bottom of the Kyber Pass, out past the the old lifeboat and into the harbour at the fish quay. I’ve enjoyed a totally different view of Whitby (from the same pub!) as the town clings to the sides of the Esk Valley with a fresh coating of crisp white snow. To suggest that the visitor trade is solely dependent on the weather is, in my opinion, misleading.

    • Tom Brodrick Reply

      June 28, 2013 at 1:22 pm

      Dear Mr King, what a refreshing, accurate letter.
      The National Park is a place you enjoy as you enter Whitby from any direction. It is a surprise, breathtaking, ever changing………..
      It is all part of the journey, the experience. Who could possibly say that the National Park experience when arriving to Whitby past the proposed pottash mine is a far flung, insignificant, unimportant corner of the National Park. Fylingthorpe, Ravenscar and on and on and on. Just look at the revenue from the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, people climbing aboard from Whitby onwards to Pickering.
      Look at all the diverse shops, pubs, restaurants………..
      The only supporters of the mine are shareholders! Their vote counts as nothing. Well said Mr King.

  53. Chris Pickering Reply

    June 28, 2013 at 8:18 pm

    So I suppose all the letters sent in to support the project most of them with local addresses, all the local business owners also share holders, the real truth is this project will support generations to come with long term highly skilled jobs, it will also help to feed world populations and earn North Yorkshire an outstanding reputation for future food production, there is so much false information from not having a market for the mineral yet we have just seen a huge order from a china and outstanding evidence of its potential from leading universities,

    They say it won’t create jobs and will ruin the environment is all nonsense, the company also wants to protect the park, the director lives in the local area, he doesn’t want to damage the park.

    And it’s utter nonsense that this debate is being lead by share holders most local people support this project, myself included for future jobs.

    • Tom Brodrick Reply

      June 28, 2013 at 8:41 pm

      I hope you are right Chris. Yes of course there are local people who are crying out for the mine to be a success. Even those who oppose the mine, should it go ahead, will hope that in reality the mine will be an ecological green friendly success, a model for all mines to come. I think the tighter the argument the more likely the best outcome.
      It’s just a shame that there isn’t an example of this new model of mining anywhere else in the world and that the prototype is in the National Park. It’s one of those things that if it goes ahead and causes untold damage then it will not/could not be reversed. I’m sure people’s minds would be at rest if a similar mine could be visited, a tried and tested model. That’s where the issue of doubt rests.

  54. Peter Hofschröer Reply

    June 29, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Can the policiticans and officials setting up this project be trusted?

    If the answer to that question is “no”, then it is likely the mining will open a Pandora’s box.

  55. Chris Pickering Reply

    June 29, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    Seriously are people for real, there just trying to think of stuff to delay this project, anyone would think the mine was covering the whole park, most of the mine is underground, u won’t even know its there, pandora box u honestly for real it’s people like yourself that prevent people from the local area gaining employment, the boulby mine has that caused untold environmental damage the answer no and that’s a old fashioned mine, the york potash is more advanced and greater regard to the environment,

    They protest about soil of course there will be soil and temporary traffic it’s not going to be long term or damage the park, if young people a break we need jobs !!!

  56. Tom brown Reply

    June 29, 2013 at 3:13 pm


  57. Neil Perrins Reply

    June 29, 2013 at 3:46 pm

    I happen to know for certain that the Sirius mine is going to extend the average lifespan of all humans to 120 years, make everyone incredibly beautiful and rich beyond their wildest dreams.

    No, wait a minute, that’s a total lie. But it doesn’t matter, does it Mr Tom Brown, because no one has to justify their claims with facts…just put a set of brackets with “honest, it’s true” at the end.

    For goodness sake man, act like an adult. If you s
    quote facts, produce your evidence. There can be absolutely no reason why you wouldn’t do it if you could…or are you a man that isn’t willing to risk anything for his principles?

  58. Chris Pickering Reply

    June 29, 2013 at 4:14 pm

    Nuke waste oh dear it gets worse, I also hear there going to keep the aliens down there as well, wat a load of tosh, not going to post anymore this is a ridiculous site

    • Tim Thorne Reply

      June 29, 2013 at 6:52 pm

      All that low-level nuclear waste has to go somewhere. Sticking it down a mine is an ideal solution really.

  59. Tom brown Reply

    June 29, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    Shit hot blind man

  60. Tom brown Reply

    June 30, 2013 at 6:14 am

    Low level indeed Tim. My point is that DEFRA has asked local authorities to volunteer to take nuclear waste for a huge consideration (billions) in order to assuage locals.
    The cash will be accepted but can you see SBC doling it out.?

  61. Tom Brown Reply

    July 3, 2013 at 6:42 am

    I’m 71 with a history of putting my finger on it

    The word NUCLEAR has been skirted round here so if you trust councils and councillors so be it.
    Mineral and waste presentation for councillors (PPT 1415KB)‎
    “The purpose of PAS is to help local planning authorities manage and deliver changes in the … Cleveland and North Yorkshire … of hazardous waste and low and very low level radioactive waste from industrial, educational and health sites.

    • Tom Brodrick Reply

      July 3, 2013 at 2:04 pm

      Get stuck in Tom, you tell em……

  62. Tom Brodrick Reply

    July 3, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    That said, I also think that correctly stored nuclear waste, radioactive waste is a good idea. If I were against it I would be against it being stored in any council area withing the UK. Would I prefer it being stored in a politically less stable country? Ha, is there a politically less stable country? I wish the British Army would intervene and boot some local councillors out. So lets face it, if you have been on the receiving end of some radioactivity in your life time then you certainly cannot complain about organising some safe storage where it cannot fall into the wrong hands. Let me think, Monday gone dental x-rays, six months ago, more dental x-rays, a year ago chest x-rays………. Who knows, it could be Gt Britains future, we could specialise, with a good evacuation plan. Particularly if we concentrated it in and around the Northern Island area and so long as from the day we agreed to store it local councillors had absolutely no involvement. It will have to be stored in a deep man made hole somewhere. On a BB2 channel it states that Gt Britain will be pushed up into the Antartic as Australia bunches up against South America etc etc and that if it is stored beneath sea level then due to the density of the mantel of the sea floor it gets pushed ever deeper as tectonic plates move over the top……………. Tom’s quite right.

  63. Tom Brown Reply

    July 4, 2013 at 8:04 am

    Thanks Tom
    I see no problem in storing low level waste in a mine providing that mine is dry but I do object to have our CIVIC? minded councils run off with the rewards which are substantial.

    A month later Brown announced a draconian change in the planning laws, look what’s going on now.

    So what is in store for nuclear waste in the future? With five years of work and 3.2 million pounds already having been spent on finding the right site and more than two thirds of its budget dedicated to managing nuclear waste, the Department for Energy and Climate Change, is on the lookout for other volunteer communities. But should the government not be focusing on technically qualified sites rather than asking communities to volunteer to take on the risk without having complete knowledge of the issues involved?

    The point is that despite the fact that we have a successful Potash Mine at Boulby there is a feeding frenzy in the scramble for shares in the new mine.

    I have said before that the Borough and County Councils have been ABOLISHED they are at the moment just like central government P.L.C.s with a brief to asset strip before Europe make its final grab.

  64. Tom Brown Reply

    July 4, 2013 at 8:31 am

    Assessing radioactive waste disposal sites
    Department of Energy & Climate Change
    Published:28 June 2011Policies:Managing the use and disposal of radioactive and nuclear substances and waste+ 1 other
    We gathered responses to this consultation between 28 June 2011 and 30 September 2011
    Download the consultation outcome

    Managing Radioactive Waste Safely: Government response to the consultation on desk-based identification and assessment of potential candidate sites for geological disposal
    Published: 21 December 2012
    PDF, 251KB, 33 pages
    This file may not be suitable for users of assistive technology. Request a different format.
    To request this document in an alternative format such as braille, audio or a different file type please email quoting your address, telephone number along with the title of the publication (“Managing Radioactive Waste Safely: Government response to the consultation on desk-based identification and assessment of potential candidate sites for geological disposal”).
    This consultation sought views on how potential sites for geological disposal of higher activity waste will be identified and assessed during Stage 4 of the Government’s Managing Radioactive Waste Safely (MRWS) Programme.

    It set out how desk-based studies would be used to identify possible sites from areas put forward following a decision by local authorities to participate in the geological disposal facility siting process.

    It also set out how possible sites could be assessed against agreed criteria and how local decisions, and subsequent Government decisions, will be made about any sites that might be put forward for more detailed geological assessment in Stage 5 of the MRWS programme.

    The consultation is now closed and the Government has published its response (see below). The Government would like to thank respondents for their contributions to the consultation. Having considered all responses received the Government has concluded there was general support for its proposals for site identification and assessment and for the criteria which will be used to identify and evaluate potential candidate sites.

    To accompany the response, the Government has also published a Framework document (see below) which contains the agreed criteria and a high-level description of the desk-based site identification and assessment process for England. It reflects the proposals presented in the public consultation including a number of additions and clarifications to the criteria, in response to comments received. It confirms that sites will be assessed using Multi-Criteria Decision Analysis (MCDA) as a tool to aid decision making and it sets out the next steps to develop this methodology, including the development of scoring scales and the weighting of the criteria.

    The Government’s response to the consultation and the Framework document are available below.

    Contact us
    Email: Post: Department of Energy and Climate Change

    Managing Radioactive Waste Safely Team

    Area 3D, 3 Whitehall Place


    SW1A 2AW

  65. Martin Rudd Reply

    July 4, 2013 at 8:09 pm

    Just to clarify, York Potash do not own the voids after the mineral extraction. They have also signed agreements on extracting the mineral that are conditional on them not using the voids for hazardous waste.

    This isn’t an opposing theoretical view – this is law and fact. What you’re suggesting contravenes a legal position York Potash have put themselves in and in doing so are accusing York Potash of deliberately intending to breach those contracts and the law.

    There have been highly vocal individuals banging this drum for some time now – all of the time pushing and forcing the focus of discussion on this issue. Essentially now it has come to a stand off where the voices are simply shouting louder and there are less and less people listening.

    I appreciate there is more than one point of view on the subject of the mine, however there seems to be a serious lack of cohesive reasoning and appropriate level of thought going into the objections here.

    I don’t understand why there hasn’t been more support throughout the planning process for the legitimate, formal objections submitted by the various institutional bodies.

    What concerns me is that those who shout loudest (albeit potentially with good intentions) drown out other nearby voices. These other voices may have strong arguments that will not be heard.

    As someone who (on balance) supports the mine and the opportunities it brings, I have tried to read and listen with an open mind to as many parties with a voice as possible. Those with an interest – whether social, economic, moral, politicial or other, they all have as much right to a voice as you or I. Please give them the opportunity to have their voice heard.

    • Tim Thorne Reply

      July 4, 2013 at 11:37 pm

      “Just to clarify, York Potash do not own the voids after the mineral extraction.”

      From the lease:

      ‘In consideration of the Rent or the Royalty reserved and the covenants on the part of the Tenant contained in this Lease the Landlord so far as it lawfully can or may HEREBY DEMISES unto the Tenant all the Demised Minerals TOGETHER WITH the Rights and any void spaces in the Lease Area created in connection with the working
      of the Demised Minerals’

      The lease seems to contradict your statement.

    • Tim Thorne Reply

      July 4, 2013 at 11:53 pm

      “They have also signed agreements on extracting the mineral that are conditional on them not using the voids for hazardous waste.”

      From the lease:

      ‘Mine and processing residues

      any materials or substances arising from the operation of the Project and any additional binding or cementing additive required for the safe and effective commercial disposal and/or backfilling of said materials or substances
      within the Mine’

      Additional binding or cementing additives are typically hazardous waste from incinerators. Normally, operators of incinerators have to pay large sums to dispose of this waste. It is a big, big money earner. Do you suppose that Sirius will turn down this hazardous waste because a few locals don’t like the idea? Or will the company do what it can to ensure the profitability of the mine by accepting millions of pounds of free money from incinerator operators and trucking in this hazardous waste?

    • Tim Thorne Reply

      July 4, 2013 at 11:58 pm

      “I appreciate there is more than one point of view on the subject of the mine, however there seems to be a serious lack of cohesive reasoning and appropriate level of thought going into the objections here.”

      All it will take for using remote voids in the mine for low-level nuclear waste is the relevant permits to move the waste. Also needed is the permission of the landowners to move that LLNW in tunnels under their land and the permission of other landowners to store that LLNW in voids under their land. If you give those landowners a few big wads of money then I doubt anyone will be able to stop it, unless the roads and mine is blockaded.

      How much would you sell the void space for LLNW under your land for? £1million? Sirius will earn far more storing it. Its a massive moneyspinner.

  66. Tom Brown Reply

    July 5, 2013 at 4:56 am

    So what is lawful
    It is lawful to answer FOIs like ‘Has Scarborough Borough Council been Abolished? This is a question I have put before both SBC and NYCC in spite of the fact that they will answer other questions they stay SCHTUM on that one.
    Nigel Ward has regularly tried to Indict various councils and councillors regarding blatant crimes such as fraudulence. North Yorkshire Police are on permanent paid holiday and nothing is ever done.

    Ergo:- THERE IS NO LAW Sirius has a free hand.

  67. Neil Perrins Reply

    July 12, 2013 at 11:51 am

    I’m 71 with a history of putting my finger on it”

    Unlike Tom, I take time to research the data offered. None of the articles given is evidence of nuclear waste storage in the proposed mine. Just discussions.

    I’m intrigued as to why the quotation from Shakespeare is used. (Incidentally, the quote is “lady” – there is one who fits the bill on this site.) I am not protesting at anything other than emotive issues and words without facts. If this is “too much” then getting to the truth is going to be impossible on this site.

    I fail to see why you have to mention your age. Is it significant? Am I supposed to recognise this lends some extra weight to your arguement? I’m not sure what it is that you appear to think you have put your finger on, but it is pretty clear that you need to pull it out when it come to research of information.

    Bottom line. Facts please.

  68. Pete Budd Reply

    July 12, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    There are no voids in Sirius mine, indeed no mine yet. However should it start producing potash, Boulby would become available for the purpose of storage with railway access and assured safe and dry conditions.

  69. Tom Brown Reply

    July 20, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Here we go again

    Low tax backing to boost fracking
    The Sun-6 hours ago
    They already announced a £1.1billion compensation plan where communities will get at least £100,000 for every fracking well opened, as well …

    Our Honest George! Chancellor of the Exchequer has promised that communities will be compensated for allowing fracking to take place in their locality. This promise was also made regarding community tolerance of nuclear waste.

    For communities read Borough and County councils who will be expected to hand over the dosh to its denizens. Yeah really!!

    Thing is who the hell would like to be down a potash mine while mini earthquakes are going on all over North Yorkshire?

  70. Daryl Smiler Reply

    July 20, 2013 at 11:34 am

    A lot of people who are posting on this site seem to have a very narrow view when it comes to predicting what may happen to the void spaces in the mine. A few seem to cling to the terms that may be applied to the planning permission, others to what may be Sirius’s intentions.

    What you must really do is wind forward a few years, perhaps even a few decades.

    The planning permission, if granted, will not be personal to Sirius and can be transferred to another owner at any time. This of course means that whatever Sirius might now intend is of no consequence.

    As far as the planning permission is concerned whoever owns the void spaces etc. will be able to make a planning application for whatever use they choose.

    In the case of radio active materials storage the decision of the National park authority will carry no weight at all. The final decisioin will be taken at a much higher level.

    In a nation with a growing dependency on nuclear energy if storage space is required it is not difficult to imagine the line government might take.

    I am not sure whether I am for or against the mine but as I said earlier if this plan is approved expect anything!

    • Tim Thorne Reply

      July 20, 2013 at 4:19 pm

      “The final decisioin will be taken at a much higher level.”

      The decision will be very much local if any mine operator want to dispose of low level nuclear waste in the void spaces. The Govt has been trying to convince various communities to accept the waste for large amounts of cash for some time, with no takers. Someone, somewhere will sell out or the UK will export it to someone who does want the cash.

  71. Daryl Smiler Reply

    July 21, 2013 at 1:31 pm

    Not so Tim. If some future Minister grants permission ‘in the national interest’ then no amount of local objection will change the situation.

    The same of course is likely to be true of the current planning application. The National Park authority will be obliged refuse it as they don’t have the authority to pass it.

    The final decision will be made by the Minister.

  72. Tom Brown Reply

    July 21, 2013 at 7:08 pm


  73. Young and Local Reply

    July 27, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    Well, no change here then..still waiting for my mates and I to get some employment opportunites.

    We can alwsy rely on the vocal aging locals with their “Not in my back yeard”

    I wonder of we will see a legal case here or will the forthcoming meeting allow some bridge building?

    I do hope they try and build bridges what ever the outcome coing forward.

    • Real Whitby Webmaster Reply

      July 30, 2013 at 11:15 am

      Not that it usually bothers me and I usually never pull anyone up on grammar or spelling. But on this one occasions Ill break my own rules. If you wrote to me asking for a job I would have to say no. If your looking for work you need to improve your grammar, spelling and keyboard skills.

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