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St George Security – Carl Parker Whitby. An Open Letter To Pub-Watch And Safer Communities.

St George Security – Carl Parker Whitby. An Open Letter To Pub-watch, Whitby Police And ...

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  1. We had the good fortune to stumble upon the marine during our first ever visit to Whitby for this years regatta. This is probably one of the finest sea food restaurants I have found anywhere in the country. The mussels were cooked to perfection as was the sea bass that we both enjoyed so much. The restaurant itself is beautifully designed with quality finishing touches. The staff were unbelievable and could do enough for us. We will certainly be back and we will happily recommend the marine to anyone going to Whitby.

  2. The Moon And Sixpence is simply astounding. we now visit on every trip to Whitby and the food just seems to get better and better. The service is of an exemplary standard, the restaurant and kitchens are spotless and the chef is a true genious in ever sense of the word. If you can only manage one night out in Whitby then the moon is the place to be.

  3. He is totaly against the useless robbing tw ts at scarborough boro council so he isgood in my book but very very very excentric he was sat the other night in the market place in an old arm chair with an old electric light next to him no electric though with a bottle of wine in the sun while i was rushing to work hes maybe a bit mental but who has got it right him enjoying being mental or us rushing around to busy to enjoy the summer ????

  4. Really enjoyed reading up on Pete Budd and then the forum you mention Glenn.

    Stuck in this horrid city it really made me smile, think it could only happen in Whitby :cheesy:


  5. So what if Pete is a bit different, Im pleased he is what he is, he adds character to the town and stands up for what he believes to be right. I enjoy his flags and abstract art/sculptures etc. Wouldn't Whitby be a very dull place without characters like this. I think Jack Lanamen caused a similar stir once over and the ended up making a film about him. Long live Peter Budd I say.

  6. We called for breakfast last week whilst in Whitby for the folk week. The food was pretty good. I had a full english and my wife opted for a continental style meal. The weather was lovely and it was great to sit in the market place and relax under the morning sunshine. A great little place for a bite to eat.

  7. Quality, quality, quality. This place is simply magnifico. The lady owner seems as mad as a box of frogs but this just ads to the character of the place. The prawn sandwiches are fantastic, and the scones are amazing as recommended above. Highly recommended.

  8. We always pop in when in the area and advise anyone to try the home made scones,they are out of this world.The staff always have a smile and time for a natter,a hidden treasure that everyone should know about.

  9. If it is fine seafood you want in a cracking environment then look no further than the marine.The food is top notch and the staff can’t help you enough.For the quality of the food,the prices are very reasonable indeed,highly recommended.

  10. You get what you pay for – some items on the menu were rather highly priced, but the quality of the food could not be faulted. I had three dishes over two courses, one of which was the moules, which there were plenty of and just delicious! not somewhere i could go frequently, but lovely for a treat

  11. After a demanding and challenging drive to Whitby, the last thing I wanted was a waitress who started her sentence with “The way it works is this…” – and a rather confusing explanation about small portions (“starter-sized”) and justification of the expensive prices! Needless to say, I didn’t stay to eat!

  12. You get what you pay for – some items on the menu were rather highly priced, but the quality of the food could not be faulted. I had 3 dishes over two courses, one of which was the moules, which there were plenty of and just delicious! not somewhere i could go frequently, but lovely for a treat

  13. Whitby has become a real foodie place and there are many wonderful restaurants, yet we had elevenses, lunch and dinner at Harry's throughout our stay almost exclusively! The staff are just perfect, attentive yet never pushy, fun, willing to go the extra mile. Great coffee, fabulous wine, delicious food. At first we thought it was a bit pricey as the menu explains that they offer single servings as snacks that can be doubled for a starter, tripled for a main course etc, but in fact the single servings make ideal portions for a really fantastic 2 or 3 course meal, or can be shared with friends to create interesting and scrumptious banquets. Specials change daily for lunch and dinner and local fish is a must. Sit outside with coffee and the paper at 10am, move onto lunch, drag yourself away to trawl the shops and beat the steps up to the abbey and come back for dinner, but don't forget to book the latter!

  14. Visited for lunch and were warmly greeted on arrival and invited to choose a table of our choice. The theme of the coffee shop not suprisingly is Sherlock Holmes, but it is tastefully done. The food is absolutely fabulous, I will go so far as to say it is the best sandwich I have ever had and my partner also thoroughly enjoyed his.

    Fantastic value and friendly service. Keep it up. Have to say the cream scones looked amazing! Nice experience. Thanks

  15. We go here every time we’re in Whitby – in fact we go to Whitby just to go here!

    You haven’t had steak until you’ve had it here, cooking it yourself on a scroching marble slab! Loads of great dishes and you can have anything off the menu in starter or main sizes so it’s great for big and small appetites.

    Can be a bit pricey but worth it and staff are always friendly and interested in what you’re doing in Whitby, what your favourite foods are, what you’ve been doing today etc etc.

    One of best restaurants in Whitby!

  16. There is a good choice from the menu. Anything could be a main meal or a starter or you could have a mixture. The service was excellent, even though it was very busy the waitress was attentive and helpful. We didn’t have to wait long. The price was reasonable and the food was really good and served in a very interesting array of dishes.

  17. Food there is excellent, fresh fish, good salad, great seafood, fantastic desserts.

    The service was excellent, they always explain you if you are a foreigner. They ask in the kitchen if they are unsure about the ingredients.

  18. This is a great place to eat….the staff were friendly and attentive. I really like how you can mix and match the menu by having starter portions or sharing portions. "Steak on the stone" was beautiful. Good atmosphere and value for money.

  19. Wow what can i say, you go to Whitby expecting to find plenty of fish and chip shops and bars but not one like this. Harry's would not be out of place in any major city centre. It serves some finer beers, wines and champagnes from around the world. They also have a superb food menu and a really good specials board. The staff are polite and courteous and their main concern is that everything is ok (pity they couldnt have stopped the rain). Nothing is too much trouble for them. We would definately call in again next time we are in Whitby.

  20. Staying in Whitby overnight went looking for a clean classic bistro to eat and came across Harry's. Very clean and bright, and the food was good, well cooked and presented. The service was excellent. Just be aware that most portions on the menu are "starter" size and so you will need 2/3 for a main course – at 2/3 time the menu price. However, don't let this put you off – if you want a good clean classic bistro head to Harry's.

  21. The first day we went to Whitby we past this cafe and couldn't help but notice the queues outside to get into the resturant and the amount of people carrying around those take away boxes of fish and chips. It left us very curious but resisted the need to follow the crowd. The next day a couple sat next to us on the pier and we managed to sneek a peek at the fish and chips in their boxes. Now I'd like to think that I am a pretty good connoisseur of fish and chips having eaten a fair few portions in my time and I would have to say that they looked and smelt amazing! Within ten minutes we were at the back of the queue. From the outside, the cafe looks small, cramped and a little scruffy and from the size of the queue expecting to be rushed to finish our meal to let the others have a go and for the service to be a disaster. We finally arrived in the resturant and were greeted by the manager who pointed to our waitress, who led us upstairs to the second floor. The cafe really was a resturant and was a pleasant suprise to find the decor tasteful and very clean with a great view. The waitresses were brilliant (hand held PDA) which sent our order straight to the kitchen and within ten minutes we were served our feast and it was a cracking meal!!! Best fish & chips I've ever had. Brilliant food, brilliant service and I would say not very expensive for the quality and experience. I would highly recommend Magpie's to anyone visiting Whitby.

  22. Visited Whitby for a day trip and The Magpie Cafe was recommended by a friend. There was an extremely long queue, however the food was worth the wait. Even though the cafe was busy, the service was remarkable.
    I ordered a small Haddock and Chips. Even though it was small, there was a generous helping of chips and the fish was massive. It’s not like the fish from your local chippy. The fish was chunky and very fleshy. I usually HATE batter. But the batter on this fish was nice and light. And not salty! The same could be said about the cod and chips which the rest had. Another friend ordered Halibut without the batter. And she said it was amazing.

    It was really worth the wait. Waiting time wasn’t that long either. We were expecting it to be around an hour or more. But we got seated within 20 mins.

    I would love to visit again just for the food! Excellent!

  23. We went with our nearly 3 year old. The food was excellent quality, I had grilled haddock and garlic potatoes followed by sticky toffee pud, my other half had a giant fish pie and crumble, the little one had the kids menu. They catered to her very well and even had a fish tank to keep her entertained.

  24. I fell upon Magpie's over 14 years ago after arriving by train from Halifax with my then 4 year old daughter. I would never have visited Magpie's had it not been one of the few places left open after checking in to our B&B. Only reason was because it looked a little too upmarket for us, and I was on a tight budget.

    I had no need to worry as I was greeted by a lovely mother figure who showed us to a table by the window. Varying age of staff are all helpful and efficient. The Trawlers were just going out and my daughter was fascinated to learn that the fish dips she was eating came from the trawlers who sold through the fish market directly across the road every day. Choice of menu will cater for the faddiest of customers. Size of portions need to be checked as even the small fish meal is more than enough for me, You have to be brave to attempt the jumbo size.

    I have brought friends and family to Magpie's ever since. Its food is plentiful, service is warm and friendly. Atmosphere is relaxing, yes you could probably find cheaper elsewhere but you would be hard pressed to find a more relaxing, intimate and family orientated restaurant

  25. If you have a favourite local chippy where you think does the best fish n chips ever …. then DO NOT go to the Magpie …. because it will never be the same again !! … we went here whilst on a break in yorkshire and this one really is THE no.1 restaurant/take away…. they do much more besides fish n chips and the amount of choice on their menu is unrivalled ….. it really is unmissable !! the service is also excellent … 10/10 and highly recommended !!

  26. That just about sums it up having eaten here several times over the years it never fails to disappoint us. The food is excellent fresh fish and seafood and a large choice menu they also have a good wine list too. Its always queuing out the door but the wait is worth it or you can use the take out at the side of the cafe where the fish and chips are just as good as inside but in my opinion you can't beat sitting inside with a plate of haddock and chips with a nice glass of white wine its heaven and well worth the money.

  27. I took a party of 10 to celebrate a special birthday with Fish and Chips and Champagne (truly a match made in heaven) and we all agreed they were out of this world; the batter was crisp and golden with beautiful thick white Cod inside and perfectly cooked proper Yorkshire chips.

    The restaurant was extremely busy (fortunately we had managed to book a table three months in advance) but the service was quick and delivered with a smile – and we never felt rushed in fact we sat quite late with more wine and wonderful desserts – sorry to any staff we kept from their beds!

  28. The Magpie cafe is the best fish restaurant we have ever been to – my husband doesn't even like fish usually, but has to admit that the Magpie is one of his favourite restaurants as well. The food is gorgeous, if you get a window table, the views across the harbour are lovely, and the staff are always pleasant and friendly. High chairs are provided, and babies and small children are made welcome.

  29. Simply sensational. The battered fish is far superior to anything I've tasted anywhere esle in the world. I've even been here with some die hard patriotric aussies, who even agreed. On this visit I started with the scallops and black pudding and ended with the sticky toffee pudding and both were on a par with similar dishes at well respected gastropubs. The battered cod though was the show stopper, as the haddock has been other times. The freshness of the produce must help, Though the combination of the succulence of the fish and lightness of the batter is mouthwatering. Highly recommended. Consistently justifies both the hype and the queues.

  30. There may be many who claim to sell the best fish and chips and there are those who wish to but the Magpie Cafe, a long time resident of the Whitby scene (see their web site) can comfortably claim this and so much more.

    Coming from a former fishing hot spot (Grimsby) that can, with some difficulty it has to be said now, still supply the purchaser with a pretty decent array of sea products. the available menu at the Magpie Cafe just knocks you sideways. Catering for all ages, appetites and tastes, their dishes are an absolute feast and delight.

    We had booked a birthday group of adults – seven in total – some of who were complete seafood novices and who dived in to such mouthwatering pleasures of oysters, mussels, salmon, plaice, squid to name but four of the many chosen and shared – note shared! – topping it off with some stunners from the dessert list with such sexy titles as Rhubarb, Rhubarb, Rhubarb, an infamous Eton Mess and a Lemon Meringue Top.

    Include their version of house Red and Rose and service that can only be described as subtley smooth, efficient and funny to boot, a night to remember and a place to recommend.

    Yes you can have the fish and chips and that is spectacular (warning, just pick the regular size, next up is whale proportions!) but if you can take some time and 'do an evening menu', it's worth it.

    A la Arnie, "we'll be back!".

  31. I was born in whitby so the Magpie Cafe has always been there. I have been there about 5 times a year for 20 odd years!. The food and service that they have delivered to me every time I have been there has been fantastic. We had our wedding meal in there and all of our guests loved it. Whoever says a bad word about the place must be the kind of person that no matter where they go they will moan (nothing better to do I expect). So like I said fantastic food, fantastic staff….everything superb. Try it, you will love it.

  32. WELL can i just say i dont usually do seasidy places, but my faith in the great british seaside is well and truly revitalised.

    Stayed for 2 nights at the Marine: FAB ROOM, FAB FOOD, and LOVELY STAFF, nothing too much trouble, and believe me I can be trouble. My hubbie and I loved our anniversary break and will definately be returning soon exellent loved it. Web site is exactly as you see give it a try you wont be disappointed.

  33. We have just returned from a 2 day break at the Marine hotel and I couldn't give the place enough praise – a real oasis in the center of Whitby. I haven't been to Whitby for nearly 20 years so I was looking forward to see if it still held true to my memories. It is still an exceptional spot, stunning and has a very unique feel to it – I was however hoping that it would have gone a little bit more upmarket. There are a couple of exceptions and one of them is the Marine hotel.

    The hotel has been open a couple of years and no expense has been spared on the rooms, we had room 3 which was absolutely beautiful. No detail has been spared and the room screams quality. Great size and a lovely bathroom with oversize bath (great after a long walk on the coast) and a great shower.

    The hotel also has a good bar and restaurant that serves great fresh sea food which is obviously a major selling point – also has a great selection of wines and cocktails to wash down the Oysters. I couldn't eulogise enough about the breakfast – I have NEVER had such an AMAZING choice for breakfast anywhere. The choice was amazing, there must have been nearly 20 choices, anything from full english (real quality produce) to steak with eggs, Kippers and I had on the last morning Welsh rarebit with bacon and a spicey Tomato relish – didn't have to eat for the rest of the day.

    The Marine has a feel of a boutique B&B rather than a hotel as the only real central reception area is the bar, but this is in no way a criticism – it is a positive in my book. Also finally it's worth mentioning the team, all very relaxed and helpful.Great

  34. Our short break to Whitby was enhanced by our stay at The Marine. No it’s not cheap, but like anything, you get what you pay for. It’s a small, up to date boutique hotel and restaurant set in a great position right on the edge of Whitby harbour. The staff were friendly, very efficient with nothing too much trouble. We enjoyed room 2, with great views out of the windows across the harbour, and a mezzanine bedroom decorated in a very up to date minimalist style. The Marine’s position means no local car parking, but that’s no issue if you are prepared to walk a bit, albeit up some steep slopes, staff will direct you, whilst you can park very close to unload your baqgage. But this is Whitby! If you don’t like walking you aren’t really going to see the town and it’s treasures properly anyway, and you will be stuck with all the other tourists milling around the harbour areas. The restaurant/bistro provides high quality, freshly prepared food, with a sea food orientation. The breakfast menu is the most comprehensive we have ever seen, matched only by the quality of food provided. There is an excellent range of wines on offer and a large variety of spirits if that’s of value to you. The bar/bistro area reflects the modern theme, and entices you to enjoy a drink, and perhaps some fresh Colchester oysters that sit tantalisingly in ice, on the bar. We returned for a last lunchtime meal of fish and chips, before we left. The lightly battered fish was as good as we have ever eaten and the sensible portion sizes were a triumph of quality over quantity. A visit to the sister bar the Moon and Sixpence, continued the quality and friendly service theme. A quick peek in The Marine’s Room One confirmed a second, excellent room, with superb views. We didn’t have a chance to view the other two rooms. The whole place was spotless and a credit to the hardworking and exceptionally helpful staff . We cannot recommend this place highly enough. For those who commented about noise from seagulls and fishing boats, this is a fishing port, and the cry of gulls is part of the charm. The boats disturbed us not one jot, though I suppose Whitby’s popularity and the subsequent wandering masses did . Next time we’ll visit in winter.

  35. After a trip cut short from the Maldives we decided to spend a couple of days in Whitby. We booked the room at the very last minute and the chap we spoke to was extremely helpful. Upon arrival and inspection of the Louis Themed room we were smiling from ear to ear. The bath with views over the harbour makes you feel like a millionaire on holiday or like you have stepped out of an ideal homes magazine! As if this wasn’t amazing enough the breakfast was outstanding – Eggs Benedict on a heavenly level!! I can’t say enough about this fab place we will be coming back for another break this year and would not even consider anywhere else.

  36. Ate here, food gorgeous, staff so helpful, lovely music and surroundings and all at a reasonable price

  37. What a fab place. We arrived on a Friday evening to a lively noisy atmosphere, pianist playing, people eating and the bar crowded with people generally having a good time. Did we have to wait? Not at all – within seconds our suitcases were whisked to our room by a smiling young man who explained where everything was. We had a table booked for eight so were quickly back downstairs, but this time in the quieter dining area to the rear of the building.

    Our meal was lovely. The service was great, this time a smiling young woman who couldn't have been nore attentive. The food was so good, we had a fishy starter and fishy mains – we were in Whitby after all.

    We took our after dinner drinks up to our room. We had room 3, which we loved. The sofa was great for watching tv and finishing off our evening.

    It was unusual not to have tea making facilities in our room but this wasn't a problem as this was speedily brought to our room whenever we requested it. Again very cheerily – we didn't spot a miserable face amongst the staff for the three days we stayed.

    Breakfast – well what can i say? WOW! The menu is huge – steak and eggs, kedgeree, Welsh rarebit, kippers, eggs Benedict, full English etc.etc.etc. And all cooked beautifully.

    The location of the hotel is also fab. Right on the harbour, when you step out you are close to everything that is going on in Whitby. A bit noisy if you're looking for a quiet getaway but if you enjoy great food and wonderful lively surroundings in a friendly relaxed atmosphere, this is the place for you.

  38. I think its such a shame that websites like whitby online allow crap like that to be published. Its nothing short of libelous. I dont know Peter from Adam but I think its appauling when people drop to such a level that they start calling names and talking about peoples mental health in such a negativ e way. Shame on the Whitby online site for not removing this trash.

  39. We gave Arnie's a try last time we came down to Whitby. To be honest it wasnt that good. Food was cold when it arrived. Tea was weak, and service not really up to scratch. Think Ill stick to the singing kettle in future.

  40. Bob Dylan:

    “Come mothers and fathers
    Throughout the land
    And don’t criticize
    What you can’t understand
    Your sons and your daughters
    Are beyond your command
    Your old road is
    Rapidly agin’
    Please get out of the new one
    If you can’t lend your hand
    For the times they are a-changin’.”

    Throwing abuse from behind a pseudonym is not acceptable.

  41. Hi Glenn, I just love your photo’s, the hole in the wall shot of the sheep is brilliant. Can I buy a copy from you please ?

  42. Hi Andy, I have a large resoloution copy of that you can download for £20. Drop me a line at and I will sort you out.

    Best wishes – Glenn

  43. Well what can i say the food was exceptional….fish and chips at the seaside are always good but these were the best i have ever tasted. the servie was excelant and the place lovely, well worth it .When it whitby the Magpie is a must.

  44. Response From Council Back In 2006

    "I have passed your query onto Mr Neil Corrie, Group Engineer, and he has

    furnished me with the following response which I trust will answer your query.

    I refer to your recent email to the Council's Customer First regarding the link

    bridge between the East Pier and the eastern breakwater at Whitby Harbour.

    The link bridge was originally removed in 2001 on Health & Safety grounds

    following the displacement of the foundation support due to severe wave action

    and subsequent movement of the bridge itself, making access unsafe for


    Due to the estimated high cost, for which the Borough Council does not have the

    available funds, it will not be possible to replace this access bridge unless

    external funding is forthcoming from Defra (Department for Environment, Food and

    Rural Affairs). In order to secure such funding, the Borough Council is

    required to apply to Defra through a prescribed process which is undertaken

    following the preparation of a coastal defence strategy.

    The Whitby Coastal Defence Strategy, which recommended capital works to the

    Whitby piers, was completed in July 2002. However, the prioritisation for these

    works was not sufficient to enable Defra to support the recommended scheme,

    including the replacement of the link bridge, to be implemented as quickly as we

    all would wish.

    Despite this disappointment, the Borough Council has continued to pursue these

    projects with Defra and as a result further detailed studies and investigations

    are now being procured to help secure the funding required. These studies, which

    we hope will assist in securing a higher priority for the projects, will be

    grant aided by Defra. Tenders have recently been received for the further

    studies and it is envisaged that these will commence early in 2006 subject to

    approval and funding from Defra.

    I share your frustration about the temporary loss of access bridge but I trust

    that you will be assured of the Council's best endeavours in trying to have it

    reinstated as soon is possible.


    Lesley M Dale

    Port Services

    Scarborough Borough Council"

  45. Spent the week in Whitby with the kids before they returned to school. We found the humble pie and mash shop on day 2. Therafter it was impossible to get the kids to eat anywhere else. Top quality food and service with a smile.

  46. Its about time this bridge was replaced. Me and the good lady love a walk along there and the kids really miss the fishing.

  47. Often the things we don't like in others are the things that we don't like in ourselves. The posts in the Whitby online forum say more about the person writting them than they do about Pete Budd.

    I have met Pete Budd and did not come to any harm! The only danger I felt was that I may have become scared of expressing myself as the individual I am because of what others may think of me, that would be crazy.

  48. Love you all. Thank you for your kind and supportive remarks. Please be aware that criticism, even if abusive, is one side of the debate which I wish to provoke by my actions. I know what it is like to hold an opinion with a passion and I do not enjoy having my expression of that supressed by others so leave the man in the white suit alone; at least he's a snappy dresser.

  49. Now that his identity has been ‘leaked’, I suspect that we will find that he has other fish to fry. Chips, too. That will be no loss; he has brought nothing pertinent to the debate. Only defamation and abuse, which I believe has no place in public life.

  50. Thats very innovative. I like it.

  51. Yes we love it too !! Whoever the mystery artist is, we love you. Lets have more messages in the sand please.

  52. it was the fantom slasher

  53. great message hope Whitby is heard

  54. Thanks Andy, ive sent you the image via email.

  55. I am a little confused ?? What is Ken Graham alleged to have done ? is there any details of this on the real Whitby site ??

  56. Who are the idiots who make these decisions ? They want sacking for costing the tax payers a lot of money. It made me laugh in the gazette last week when the council said they had delayed the east pier repairs untill now to get the best weather so they could work for 15 weeks flat out with no disruptions. Has no-boddy told these fools that the autumn is the worst period for rough seas around whitby ? Here we are nearing the Autumn equinox and we get the biggest south easterly swells for 10 years and not a work man in sight ? It will take the fools 300 weeks not 15.

  57. Is this site here just to bash scarborough council, or does it serve some other business too ??

  58. How much has this cost the tax payers in Whitby

  59. Pete Budd put Church St on the map with his magnificent ‘Shepherd Purse’
    This was and is a work of art considering its origins. Church St was just a struggling business venue till this happened.

    Eccentricity with serendipity has been his trade mark since but it has to be said none of us have had the courage to stand up for Whitby as he has done.

  60. Toby… You have to remember that Filey and Scarborough all pay into the pot too. We're all paying these morons to waste our money.

    The question is, what are we doing about it? I hear that this Nigel Ward fellow and his friends are doing something, and I'm about to get on board too. I want them to know I'm really not happy at this wastage in "our name". It's wrong and must stop now.

  61. But the site just seems to be about Scarborough Borough Council. How about changing the record Tom Brodrick. Have you anything interesting and productive you can post on the site rather than constant gash about sbc !!

    • Tom is entitled to use the site for whatever purposes as he sits fit, as are you. I hope in time that you will all come to view on the site as your own. will only be as good as the people who use it. Please take ownership of the site and send me lots of interesting stuff to publish on your behalves.

  62. Pete Budd is an absolute nut. But I love him all the same.

  63. Hello Nick,

    I am making an enquiry on behalf of a group of Whitby residents who have chanced to see correspondence with the Head of Technical Services in respect of the deteriorating condition of the Lighthouse on Whitby's East Pier. They are contemplating the formation of a 'Friends of Whitby East Pier' community group (by whatever name – of course, of their own choosing).

    Having visited the West Pier Lighthouse last Thursday with one of your colleagues, I can readily recognise their concerns. The East Pier Lighthouse needs all the friends it can get.

    I have been asked to make enquiries regarding the possibility of the group taking a lease on the East Pier Lighthouse.

    Would you please be so good as to direct me to the proper person to help me with these enquiries.

    I thank you in anticipation of your earliest guidance on this matter.

    kind regards,


  64. The Man In The White

    Good afternoon you bunch of dim wits, if you lot really think the lunatics actions help the cause , your more deluded than I first thought!

    Fish and chips anyone?

    • Be warned. Your abuse wont be accepted here. I am very experienced in running debate type sites and forums, so please behave yourself. In future please refer to Mr Budd by his name, or your comments will not go live on the site.

      Best wishes – Glenn

      • The Man In The White

        Ok Glenn, but don't forget, I have never even mentioned the person who I am talking about on either website. It's you lot who has decided who it is, which does not say much about his so called friends!

  65. I took my wife and my son and nephew to the magpie the food was very nice

    I would recommend it

  66. The Man In The White

    And I'm still waiting for Nigel to put my name up on here, let's see if he has the bottle

  67. Its pretty clear who you mean from your posts. As for having bottle, why dont you have the bottle to post under your real name, and maybe its time to grow up a little too and stop making ultimatums designed at getting peoples backs up. Like I say I am experienced with these kind of sites and don't tolerate sillyness. If you have nothing positive to contribute then please save yourself the effort of typing until you have as I wont be approving anymore replies like your last few.

  68. The Man In The White

    So much for free speech! I thought you lot were looney lefties!

    • No body said you couldnt have your say. The only request is you do it in a civil manner and no personal attacks. That rule applies to everyone not just yourself. Also please dont refer to the users of this site as "you lot", there are many individuals here with diverse viewpoints, there is no group or clique here. The site is here to give everyone a voice regardles of wether you fall left, right or centre.

  69. The Man In The White

    No one seems to be replying now I have turned up on this site Glenn, maybe they are all very shy!

  70. I'd never set foot in the place until last month. My sister and her husband were up for folk week, and really enjoyed a meal at the Magpie, so I took my daughter when she came up to visit. Enough to say that we went again the following night. I am ashamed to say that I've been very snobbish about the Magpie in the past, and made the daft assumption that it was just a poncy chip 'oil. I was wrong. Decent fish and seafood, and bottles of Slipway to help it down. A grant Whitby institution, no less.

  71. Exceedingly good cakes. I recommend the orange and treacle tart!

  72. The Man In The White

    Surprised there wasn't more of them at the spa for the meeting!

  73. The Man In The White

    Just about gritting when it snows and few other things, I nodded off as normal!

  74. The entire corpus of TMITWS's malicious statements in the public domain, including several libellous remarks, has been collated and presented to the appropriate authority. I have been assured that the material is being closely examined and the relevant sites are being monitored daily. I have also been assured that a Court Order is easily obtainable, compelling the Administrator of this site to turn over to the Court the registration details of the alleged offender. Frankly, I suspect the Administrator would be delighted to comply. As am I.

  75. We had the pleasure of staying at this campsite back in July 2010. The site is beautiful and the views down the esk valley on a warm summers evening are beyond words. The campsite is owned by a very pleasant and down to earth family, nothing is too much for them and they are able to offer advice on where to visit and eat out in Whitby (Places that the locals use). The facilities were good with a brandnew state of the art shower and toilet block central to the small yet spacious site. You wont go far wrong if you stay here.

  76. Sent you a few more Glenn

  77. A nice little site, set high abov whitby. As the name suggests the summer sunsets are magnificent. On the downside, the site is lacking in facilities, but for the price we paid it was very cheap so cant compalin really. If you want to pitch a tent on a bog standard campsite then this may just be for you.

  78. The Man In The White

    Grow up Nigel , this is a public forum, just because you don't agree with me , shouldn't mean u should threaten me

  79. so back to a debate; shall we formulate a Single Local Authority for the National Park with Whitby and a Marine Reserve? Scarborough is preparing to "Parish" and it makes sense for Whitby to do the same. There are opportunities if we want to take them to provoke change.

  80. The Man In The White

    A bit of a change of subject, but just for my research , how many on this thread smoke or take drugs? And how many want it made legal to do so?

    I will start us all off with my answers,

    I'm no and no to the 2 questions.

    Let's see if Nigel and his gang can answer with waffling on.

    This should be interesting,

  81. I used to get the train to whitby as a schoolboy .and fished both piers.

    I fished it every winter until it shut.

    I would love to see that East Pier restored for the future.

    It would shurely attract more people to that side of the Harbour of Whitby.

  82. The Man In The White

    What about my other posts admin? Why have you not put them up?

    • As I keep telling you, I wont put up posts that are negative agaisnt a person or likely to cause offence. I am pretty sure that a man of your intellect can make a point without having a direct go at people on a personal level. I dont want this site full of arguments and slanging matches. I understand your point about and realise you believe that direct action is not the way forward, but perhaps you could explain that in a friendly manner and suggest other ways to take things forward, after all Im pretty sure that most people in Whitby really do want to see the back of sbc and its neglect of our beautiful town.

  83. The Man In The White

    Do you really think spraying graffiti, setting fires etc will help provoke change?

  84. When the White Horse was first opened it used to be my favourite restaurant in Whitby. They had top quality chefs working hard. The menu was very elaborate and portions were big along with excellent prices. The Restaurant then got rave reviews in the national press, and sadly I have to say its been all down hill since then. The menu has shrunk along with the portions, yet the prices have risen far beyond what is reasonable. If the White horse was to return to its roots it would be an excellent restaurant, however at present it serves mediocre food at extortionate prices to the visitors of Whitby.

  85. The Man In The White

    The only way to bring about change is to have the full support of the local people, which free Whitby clearly does not have, I actually think 90% of Whitby people agree with the cause, but when they see ranting in the street on a megaphone , graffiti and other " eccentric" acts, the vast majority of whitby people of Whitby feel embarassed and don't want to be associated with the cause. I realise it's easy for me to say all this without giving a proper answer on how to gain independence , but all I know is the way they are going about things is the wrong way.

  86. This really is a high quality guest house. I have now stayed here twice and will do so again next time were in Whitby. The guesthouse is as mentioned, very tastefully decorated, everything is just right. The breakfasts are superb as is the welcom you recieve from the owners. I give this place full marks on all front.

  87. A smashing little spot. A real gem of a guesthouse situated minutes (Down-hill) to the town centre. The hosts were fantastic as was the rooms and meals. Really recommend this spot.

  88. Martin Merryweather

    This is a lovely site. Situated just outside Robin Hoods Bay and only 10 minutes in the car to Whitby. The scenery was amazing as was the warm welcome by the site owners. Everything was just right.

  89. Has to be one of the best hostels in the whole of the Uk. Where else do you get to stay in such a beautiful building in the middle of one of the most scenic and historic towns in England. The Hostel is beautiful, the rooms are first class and the price isnt tool bad at all. Its a bit difficult to climb the 199 steps after a few ales down below in the Duke Of York, but once at the top of the steps the view over Whitby is beyond description. If you cant manage the steps then a taxi from town is about 5 pounds. I would mark the hostel down slightly on its location as its tough to get to if your a little unfit, but on all other scores this hostel is unrivalled.

  90. A nice little hostel just 5 mins from the town centre along the flat road of Church Street. Rooms are nice, hostel is very clean and well run. There is a friendly atmosphere and your made to feel most welcome. Free advice on what to do and where to visit is also on hand. We really enjoyed our stay and can highly recommend this hostel

  91. Not quite as good as expected but was ok. Rooms were clean but perhaps a little basic which was not represented in the overall price. In the past we have stayed at the cottages on Larpool village at Captain cooks Haven and these have been far superior.

  92. So let's close the bridge to traffic and give it a coat of paint. Formulate A New National Park with a Marine Reserve for local fishermen and source labour and materials for public works locally, with a single Local Authority. This should save £300 per household to maintain our War Memorial Hospital.

  93. The Man In The White

    Barred from the s**p inn now for throwing his slippers at customers! Maybe he thought they were George bush or Tony Blair !

  94. The people who left the comment dated – September 23, 2010 – 9:27 pm never stayed in our cottage. The name 'Angela Redhead' has never appeared on any of our booking forms and should be classed as 'bogus'.

    Our indication of the cottage and facilities given in an honest * rating are as shown.

    • My apologies to you guys. Its pretty hard knowing what is real and false when dealing with reviews. How do you feel about me coming down with the camera and taking some pics of your cottage, inside and out. Free of charge and ill add them to this page for you.

  95. Just found this site through whitby fishing forums and i have also been threatened with legal action and a sorting out on another angling forum.

    I have asked to meet the person who lives in york but to me he is just a name behind a screen who is a bully.

    Ive never liked bullys since school and ive certainly met some since i came on the internet.

    Would these same people talk like that if they met me in person.

    My niece said she has had threats from people on the sites she goes on and shes not on fishing sites like myself.

    If i am wrong in anything i debate i will appologise straight away

    But i wont appologise if i havnt said anything which i know is the truth.

    Intresting site .

  96. When them lads get a bit older they will be horrified to see how silly and dangerous their actions were.

    Its the poor dog i feel sorry for you can see he can see the danger.

    Owners get the dogs a bad name too often .

    Just look at the bad press Staffys are getting haveing to walk around with their irresponsible owners.

    The owners dress the dogs to look silly with all the leather and brass round there necks.

    Poor Dogs

  97. The Man with the Yel

    My first and last posting under a pseudonym. No name? No opinion.

  98. The Man In The White

    Hello Nigel ^^^^^^^^ pmsl

  99. The Man In The White

    I forgot, you are only allowed one email address !

    , silly me

    • I think what you forget is not everyone here is trying to hide their true identity. I think Nigel has nothing to hide, hence he posts as Nigel. The one thing you need to remember is that you may have several email addresses but you only have 1 IP address.

  100. The Man In The White

    Come on Glenn , surely you know how to change your ip address, !

  101. Since TMITWS has appeared on whitbyonline which ive been ghosting for years it is also now a virtually dead site. When he loses an argument he just begins with personal insults…ban him…or this site will go the same way.

    He has nothing constructive to say…he bangs on about free speech…yet he wants to stop this man having his say and anyone else who doesnt think the same.

    Dont like me TMITWS…so sue me!

  102. The Man In The White

    You obviously have not read all my postings! I actually think

    Glenn agrees with some of my suggestions,eg about free Whitby going about things the wrong way! Doubt he will admit it thou lol,

    So you want me banned! Just because i mentioned about you having some washing up to do , lol .You sound like someone from 1930's Germany !

    • Dont know where you got the idea I agree with you from. I just tried to put your point across a bit more diplomatically than you did yourself, as I could see what you were saying but the issues were getting clouded by other factors, all in the favour of friendly debate you see. I do actually enjoy what Peter does, I think there's room for many different approaches in the way we try to get the best for our beautiful town and its many residents. In years to come people will remember Peter and what he brought to Whitby, do you think the same may be true for yourself ?

  103. The Man In The White

    The difference is Glenn , I don't want to be talked about in years to come, I don't crave that attention , I will carry on my fight for a better Whitby in my own way which does not include mindless vandalism , wasting police time, putting the public at risk, and costing us taxpayers money( I doubt there are many tax payers on here so I'm probably only talking about myself).

    • Thats good news. Im pleased that there are a diversity of individuals all fighting for the one common cause. Keep up the good work and please keep us informed of what you do and how you do it. Im currently looking at creating a social network for the site. I hope you will be able to join up and contribute.

  104. I too would like to know what you ACTUALLY DO…

    Give Pete Budd his due..he is actually being seen to be doing something…?!

    I am a taxpayer..not that that gives me any extra rights to a say of course! If Pete Budd has a business, then he must be a taxpayer too?

    What has 1930's Germany got to do with me wanting to be treated with respect?

    I have the same rights as others, as you have, we also have to abide by the same laws…like not being sexist, ageist, racist etc etc?? We all have equal rights, whether you like it or not.

    If Pete Budd is this massive criminal that you make him out to be…how come he hasnt been arrested, charged with anything etc etc???

  105. Maybe it was Pete Budd trying a non dangerous approach to an issue LOL! *sniggers*


    Pete – Luv ya!! You will be a legend yet…..

  106. The Man In The White

    He has been arrested several times in the past,

    I would love to say who I am and what I actually do, but knowing how much Nigel and his mob enjoy a good old court case, it is in my interest to keep stum.

    Ps I bet your another one who wanted bar bar black sheep banned from our schools

    The looney left are the reason this country and Whitby are on the state it is in.

  107. 'I would love to say who I am and what I actually do, but knowing how much Nigel and his mob enjoy a good old court case, it is in my interest to keep stum.'

    Oh, I thought you liked protests to be legal? Then you can tell us all what you do, or that makes you as 'bad' as Mr Budd…….? The truth is, methinks, that you actually dont do anything….? Except fall asleep at meetings LOL….

    very constructive 😀

    Oh, here we go, personal attacks again…on to a loser 😀

  108. The Man In The White

    It's a pity more people don't turn up the meeting instead of talking the talk on here!

    I do like protests to be legal but I hate the looney left who want to take you to court for any stupid little thing like taking a poster down ffs ,

  109. The Man In The White

    Where's the edit button Glenn? So I I can sort my grammer out lol

    • I dont think there is one mate, best to check it before hand. Im still working on the buddypress plugin which should add a lot more functionality for you.

  110. Does Pete Budd have acess to the internet?

  111. If what you are doing is 'illegal' then someone has the right to take you to court. They dont make the rules… is the law of the land.

    If the posters are legally posted, you dont have a right to take them down.

    • Hi Angela, I have now removed the site forum and added a community facility that operates a little like wordpress. As a regular site contributer I wondered if you would care to be one of the first community members.

      The link is available from the community tab in the main menu above. If you run into any problems please drop me an email or you can get me anytime on 07879 451837

      Best regards – Glenn

  112. The Man In The White

    Put me down as the forum moderator if you want Glenn :-0

    • A kind offer, but sadly I shall have to decline, I dont think you tick all the right boxes, especially after reading the last post of yours that Ive just put in the trash can. I take it your an adult ? I would prefer it if you kept insulting comments to yourself in future because as admin of this site I dont want to read it.

  113. The Man In The White

    When you find out what went off , you will see things different,

    Ask around Glenn ,there was plenty of witness’s

  114. Hi Glenn

    I will have a go with it when I get home…where I work we're not allowed cookies etc


  115. Just looked on the community thing…am I being silly…once on there, there is no link back to the main site?

    • Thats correct angela, theres still a lot of development to be done. I am looking for a nice theme for the community. The problem Im encountering is that the companies who sell the themes are also charging for upgrades which isnt the done thing.

      I Like this one, but dont want to pay 49$ everytime I need the upgrade which can be 2 or 3 times a year.

      But I am working on it and its will all fit together seemlessly when I get time to work on it. Available time is difficult at the moment as when the weather is right I follow my passion of fishing on an evening. The real whitby site and community is work in progress and there is a long road ahead.

  116. The Man In The White

    Have you heard what happened on Saturday night yet Glenn

  117. All these Bob Goodwill posts and not a single comment. Have you checked that, Robert? Nobody around here gives a flying flock what you are saying or doing.

  118. The Man In The White

    In other words you have heard and you know I have been right all along about him!

    Has Nigel any comments to make about Saturday night?

  119. The Man In The White

    Don't turn a blind eye Glenn, !

  120. What happened Saturday night? Im intrigued now..was there more slipper throwing?? *giggles*

  121. When someone evinces such extreme animus against a generally well-liked and respected member of the public, it's usually the case that there is a deep personal grudge at the bottom of it, grounded in having been made to look a complete and utter cretin by the one concerned. That fits.

    • Huh? This is a really confusing thread no? If you want to be silly to each other..why not just meet up and talk to one another and sort it grown ups? (but leave your slippers at home Bwuhahaha!)

      By the way..what ACTUALLY happened Saturday night..mind you im getting abit bored of that one now :-0

      Someone throwing their slipper at someone..the most exciting thing to happen in Whitby gossip land in….ohhh..ages… *sniggers*

  122. The Man In The White

    Well done Nigel , only took you 3 days to write that, great stuff,

    I ask again, what is your take on Saturday night?

    Please try and answer the question instead of your usual waffle, ta

  123. So what did happen on Saturday night? Is this another Pete story?

  124. The Man In The White

    I will email Glenn with the story, then it's down to him, have you got a email addy I can send it to Glenn? I can't post it on here, for obvious reasons .

  125. The Man In The White

    Wakey Wakey

  126. Been reading the site for a few weeks now. Very amusing it is too. Just a couple of guesses on who the man in the White suite could be – Rob Broadley, Siggy from the chippy, Tom Brown. Am I right ?

    • Hes not articulate enough for it to be Rob. One of the other 2 perhaps as they arent all that bright. I say Siggy, especially with the earlier mention of the chips shop.

      • the man in the white

        Rob Broadley articulate. Your having a tin bath arent you, he dont know his a**e from his elbow. The man is as bonkers as budd et al. If you disagree with him then he wants to hit you.

        • Off you go again, half cocked as usual. Ive known Rob a lot of years and you wont meet a nicer man. He is Whitby born and bred and willing to put his name behind what he believs in, unlike some I could mention who chose to hide behind a screen name whilst throwing stones from a distance. If you were half the man you think you are you would meet up with all these people you dislike and discuss your issues. But of course its always harder to put someone down when your face to face with them.

          • the man in the white

            The mans a drunken thug Glenn. One wrong word and he does you over. Having him on the council is a bit like having the local mafia run the town. How he got to be mayor I dont know.

  127. the man in the suite sounds bitter and twisted. He needs to get a life so that he isnt spending all his time harrassing others.

  128. The Man In The White

    Keep guessing girls ! Pmsl

  129. I see that the company repairing the outer extension are currently having it large at the tax payers expense. Working 24hrs a day and on full pay whilst doing nothing when the weather is bad. What a joke, SBC want shafting for the total neglect of Whitby piers, its a joke, what a bunch of flaming galars they are

  130. The Man In The White

    Lol, have you got a email address Glenn ? I just want you to see this is why free Whitby will always be the laughing stock whilst these clowns are at the steering wheel.

  131. The Man In The White

    Lol, looks like we have a imposter! It's odds on it's Nigel again!

  132. The Man In The White

    Still waiting for your email addy Glenn !

  133. The Man In The White

    Cheers, have you worked out who the imposter is yet? You replied as thou it was me, when you said I was half cooked again lol

  134. Hi Angela, I activated your account on the forum

  135. Hi Angela, I think your email l,ikely went into your spam folder ? Could you check it out and let me know as there are issues with the software I need to sort out. You can email or ring me any evening.

  136. Nope, nothing there…

  137. sadly i do not think that sbc have any intention of reopening the east peir extention apart from anything else the wood decking is by almost certantly rotten after many of no inspections (i hope i am wrong)

  138. All this talk of lack of money ect and now with all these cuts.

    Would you not think Lottery money could be found to repair that East Pier.

    Its Whibys shipping and fishing history we are talking about.

    This weekend 's Goth weekend would have had thousands of tourists flocking to that Pier just to take pictures of the Abbey.

  139. Some money here for good causes :

    maybe they think the east pier isnt a good cause ?

  140. A really great local story, I certainly enjoyed reading that. The site would be good if it focussed more on local stories like this one. I used to read the Whitby Independent and they focussed on local people, lets have more of the same please.

    • hi Andrew. I intend to run more of these stories whenever I can get my hands on them. What would be nice, is for site readers to send me stories and pictures for the site. At the moment I do not have the time to research and write stories. It is hoped that over time the site will build up a list of contributers. Just out of interest are you able to write a local article for us ? I note you have contributed to the site a lot recently so you must have local interest.

  141. We went to Arnies for an evening meal. Food was fine for me, but a vvv long wait while the chef and waitress had a good long old chat…hmmm

  142. Had a really good evening meal in here, for a packed pub the service was up to scratch, food was good..even hubby liked it and thats saying something!
    Nice atmosphere/setting/interior. Average prices for a pub.

  143. As I posted on the Whitby Sea Anglers forum, what a monumental effort by those involved. A terrific find and can’t wait for Mark and Mike to do their magic and reveal the fossil in full. Is this Real-Whitby’s first exclusive?


  144. Seems to be a lot of interest in this article. Over 300 hits today, an all time high for Real Whitby.

  145. There have been at least two previous incidents of this kind. Well-covered in the Gazette at the time, but I can’t find them on the web-site now. My info is that the CPS have been informed. That suggests charges are anticipated. Or possibly that clearance for armed police is on the cards. If the investigation is looking at the possibility of a serial offender, the Gazette may perhaps have been requested to co-operate by keeping it under wraps over the weekend for fear of causing widespread public concern – not good over Goth weekend.

    Someone said, “Goth Wars!”. Let’s not go there.

  146. Couple of things on FaceBook about this:

    JM: My friend Rosie Lugosi and her gorgeous partner Aly Fell have been shot at – SHOT AT – and Aly was hit (luckily with an air rifle) at Whitby Goth Weekend for being Goths. I feel that we are afloat in a huge, black sea of bigotry! Really, Petra? Really Marjorie! Is this as far as we’ve come? Are we ever planning to actually grow up?

    AF: Thank you Jonathan. I will say though that we’re not sure it was locals, it could have been lads from Scarborough or somewhere else come to poke sticks at the ‘freaks’. Whitby locals, after the initial concerns when the Goth Weekend started, have generally been wonderful. The policeman who came over said they have no issues with the ‘Goths’ who are pretty much no problem at all. It was good to get such positive feedback from him.

    RJU: Anyone different to these stupid tribal oafs is a target? Its beyond me what threat we are to “Normal ???” people. Frankly I am sick and tired of ridicule in the streets and this sort of thing ?

    Glenn, can you cross-flag this to the ‘Not in My Neighbourhood Week’ posting?

  147. Shooting at anyone/thing in the street is illegal and frankly disgusting. Air rifles are a complete nuisance and not very well policed like normal guns, but they can still kill and maim/injure what they hit.

    Its time for an overhaul on the law on these guns..serious harm has come to people already….

  148. I love the Goths, they add so much to Whitby. This story is such a shame and I hope it doesnt put the Goths off coming here as Im sure that 99% of Whitby people really like to see them in town too.

  149. Those Scarby people, eh? Coming over here looking for Goths to bother, bringing their air rifles with them….Let’s be honest: some people moan and sob about Goths, folkies, morris dancers, new agers, mods, and even about Nigel Ward. We have some intolerant halfwits in our midst, and let’s not pretend otherwise. I hope it doesn’t put the Goths off – most of us just love em.

  150. The Man In The White suit

    I say let’s catch em then give a good shoeing, I would like to see them try and use a air rifle whilst on a drip.

    Just my opinion of course,

    • Caution is required here. Incitement to violence is an offence under various provisions of the Public Order Act 1986 and under the provions of the Serious Crime Act of 2007, regardless of whether the incitement is ‘express’ or ‘implicit’. It can carry a substantial custodial sentence.

  151. The Man In The White suit

    Here we go again, the looney left will want to send them on a holiday to rehabilitate them. It’s down to the namby pamby tree huggers that they get away with it. I wonder if they would do it again if there knee cap was hanging off? I doubt it.

  152. The Man In The White suit


  153. TMIWS…

    Would you really give them a good hiding or are you just running off at the mouth?


  154. The Man In The White suit

    Yes, they need to learn some respect

  155. Is that 'yes' you are just running off at the mouth, or 'yes' you would give them a good pasting?

    Fact is, it's one thing saying they deserve it, it's something else altogether having the bollocks to actually give them a hammering.

    It seems that too many people are good at being mouthy, and not good enough at doing what they claim. Better yet, it is far too obvious that too many people are interested in hiding behind pen names, and getting mouthy.

    What a pity.

  156. This could be a topic for our forum. "Vigilantism, Respect And Violence". Whose gonna start the topic in the forum ?

  157. Hi Admin…

    No. I’ve posted on this site before. Under my own name, and my own email address. I posted here a few weeks ago, the article is this one:

    I also had to wait for your approval before my reply would display. I’ve posted a few times.

    I suppose I am not that memorable. I will just have to get used to that.



  158. Glenn, I have to say that I thought the defamation and character-assassination stuff was bad enough, but this talk of "shoeing" people and leaving them with their "knee caps hanging off" is totally out of order. Inciting people to take the law into their own hands is completely inappropriate.

    I visit this site to contribute to a lively debate about the well-being of Whitby. Threats of violence have no place in that debate, even if it is all hot air.

    Dealing with the culprits in this disgraceful shooting incident is a matter for the Police and the Courts. Same applies to incitement to violence.

  159. Hi Nigel, there is an element of society that subscribes to the viewpoint of an eye for an eye in terms of retribution for violent crime. You hear it often, especially when people talk about crimes such as paedophilia etc. In some countries, thankfully not here you have vigilantes who roam the streets looking to do just that. Whilst I don't advocate this myself we can not deny people the right to discuss it. However anyone caught taking the law into their own hands could themselves become subject to the law, a prime example being the farmer who shot a burglar a few years ago and was then imprisoned for it. A lot of society was on his side, believing you have the right to take such action. Other elements of society were against his actions saying matters should be left to the police. If I believed for one moment that anyone was at risk of harm here I would be contacting the police, I don't take these things lightly, but I do believe that MITWS is playing his usual tune here.

    • Don't get me wrong, Glenn. Not for one millisecond am I defending the person/people who did the shooting(s). Far from it. It is very serious indeed. As a matter of fact, I have a small scar on my forehead from a incident in my early teens. The pellet actually stuck in my head – only 4cms above my eye. The doc told me that if it had entered soft tissue, I could very easily have died.

      But we have a vital tradition in this country – the presumption of innocence, or 'innocent until proven guilty'. That requires a professional investigation and a trial.

      If TMITWS has any inkling who the guilty party is, he should report it to the police – not go after them himself or encourage others to do so.

  160. Yes I would agree with that Nigel, a common sense approach. I can see both sides of the debate regarding direct action. There are times when I look at things on the TV like the case I mentioned above and think you should be able to deal with burglars in your own home as you see fit. But the other side of me says that if everyone took the law into their own hands where would we be. Although its far from ideal at times, I do believe in the English justice system.

    Anyway, enough from me, Im meant to be impartial. Think Im gonna have to find a moderator for this site as I can see me getting drawn into too many debates.

    I went to school (many years ago now) with a girl who got shot with an air rifle and lost her eye. It is a very serious matter and I hope the police are able to find the person and bring them to justice.

  161. We have the police and the courts for a reason, you cant dish out your own form of justice as and when you please, it would lead to anarchy. The man in the white suite is just a windup merchant, but he certainly knows how to get Nigels back up. Experience tells me that people who do a lot of shouting do little else.

  162. The Man In The White Suite makes some very interesting contributions to this site. I'm pleased that Glenn manages to let him have his say whilst also keeping him in check. Freedom of speech is alive and well, very well moderated Glenn, the site wouldn't be half as good without him and I think you know that. Brilliant site and I tell all my friends about it at every opportunity. Viva real whitby.

  163. The Man In The White

    All I can say is if some lowlife shot my wife/mum//dad etc or even an innocent bystander for no reason, and I knew who it was, I would "sort him out" . Maybe it's just me, but I was brought up knowing what is right and wrong. When I have done things wrong or even made mistakes I have had to pay the price, I didnt get wrapped in cotten wool, it's all about respect, and I promise you this, you don't gain respect by pussy footing around.

    • Could you imagine how the families of the Yorkshire Rippers victims felt. The urge for revenge must have been very strong indeed. Im sitting on the fence on this one. I really do see both sides of the coin. I would hope I would leave things to the law but I also would say never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Who knows how I would react if someone harmed my family, you just never know untill your there faced with it, and when emotions etc come into play even the most peaceful of men can behave very strangely.

  164. The Man In The White

    And yes, I agree with the chap above , great site Glenn , keep up the good work,

  165. Well, I'm sorry but the Man in the White Suit sounds like a thug to me. You can't fight violence with violence. He is just lowering himself to their level. Great site btw.

  166. I dont think his bite is as bad as his bark. Man Int White suite makes some valid points but at times lets himself down with his constant bickering with Mr Ward.

  167. ‘Maybe it’s just me, but I was brought up knowing what is right and wrong’…You cannot put 2 wrongs together to make a right…leave things to the law. If you dont like the law and think it should be changed, lobby your MP/write to the PM or summat useful..inciting people to violence is never a good idea, because YOU end up in trouble instead!
    The forums I go on…anyone saying someone should get a pasting/knee caps off/shoeing would have been banned by now. No, FYI, they are not ‘loony lefty’ sites either before you start!

  168. The Man In The White suit

    Here we go again, you want me banned “again” for expressing my opinion, your reply is the reason society has gone down the karzi, instead of people paying for their mistakes, you want to give them a hug and say ” please don’t be a bad boy” .

    My way of giving them a good shoeing then saying to them ” if you do it again you will be eating throu a straw for the rest of your life”

    I wonder which would have the biggest success rate!!!!!!!

    • Here we go… just stating fact. You just make it up.

      Expressing opinion is one thing..inciting people to violence, making threats etc is breaking laws…which you are quick to accuse Pete Budd et al of doing and dissing them for it….be rude to me by all means…I find it amusing..but be consistant. LOL

  169. Where does the phrase “A good shoeing” come from, Iraq.

  170. The Man In The White suit

    I didnt realise this was a pub quiz lol

  171. lol, your starter for 10 !!!

  172. TMITWS:

    Talking of shoeing…Perhaps Pete Budd felt the person he threw his slippers at 'deserved it' by your standards………….what a hypocrite you are.

  173. Talking of the cold war, wheres the man in the white suite gone to. Hope hes not down with man flu.

  174. The Man In The White

    Hopefully he has disappeared down an old nuclear bunker , never to be seen again!

  175. The article in today’s Gazette (9th Nov., 2010) is riddled with factual inaccuracies.

    I will write this up correctly when I have time, hopefully this evening.

  176. Can anyone shine anymore light on the unrest in the council chambers. Why are people resigning and when can we expect more resignations to be made public.

  177. Mr Hopkins

    A very good article.

    You are quite correct and believe me it is a constant uphill struggle trying to get SBC to understand.

    Yet to you and many others it is so obvious.

    SBC would probably put a Travel Lodge in Beamish Museum to attract more visitors.

  178. The Man In The White

    Well I've been working hard to reach me target

    To earn a few bob for a day trip down to Margate

    I'm gonna blow the lot tomorrow on all me family

    We catch the coach at eight so don't be late, were off to see the sea

    Hurry up will ya Grandad, come on were going

    Down to Margate, don't forget your buckets and spades and cossys and all

    Down to Margate, we'll have a pill of jellied eels at the cockle stall

    Down to Margate, we'll go on the pier and we'll have a beer aside of the sea

    Down to Margate, you can keep the Costa Brava, I'm telling ya mate I'd rather have a day down Margate with all me family

    Along the promenade we spend some money

    And we find a spot on the beach that's simply sunny

    The kids will all enjoy themself digging up the sand, collecting stones and winkle shells to take back home to nan

    Behave yourself grandad, or you won't be going

    Down to Margate, don't forget your buckets and spades and cossies and all

    Down to Margate, we'll have a pill of jellied eels at the cockle stall

    Down to Margate, we'll go on the pier and we'll have a beer aside of the sea

    You can keep the Costa Brava and all that palava, going no farther, me i'd rather have me a day down Margate with all me family

  179. I would agree with this viewpoint, Whitby has so much to loose if it goes down the commercial development route. Thank god that the marina has not been developed in the way some people wanted. I do not understand why some people just do not get it. We are so fortunate to live somewhere so unspoilt. Little has changed over the centuries, so why bring change now ?? I think the answer lies in the human flaw called greed. If you want chep tat, go to Scarborough, and if you want supermarkets and fast food restaurants travel to Middlesborough.

  180. Anyone who thinks Whitby should be allowed to live in the past is living in a dream world. Its now 2010 and Whitby is in big need of a facelift. As usual its the loony left element who dont like change. Whitby people deserve to live in a town where they can shop and be entertained like the rest of the UK. Stop living in the dark ages, its very sad to listen to all you lot harping on about a hasbeen seaside resort living in the past.

  181. Whitby & Margate in the same sentence…how VERY dare you!!

  182. For your Information, Jo Hampshire is not the Official Organiser of Whitby Goth Weekend. She was the brains behind it, 17 yrs ago after she sent an advert to NME looking for a pen pal. She arranged to meet in the Elsinore Pub, and over 200 ppl turned up.

    But that was 17 yrs ago, Jo Hampshire still runs the Official Whitby goth weekend production company (Topmum) which hosts events at the SPA Pavilion. There are now plenty of smaller production companies such as Kev and Michelle's Pitch Black events at the resolution. –!/group.p

    and Hazel Wainwrights team that host the Sexy Sunday and Manic Monday nights at the Met Hotel see exceprt from Whitby Gazette

    These are just two of the other excellent production companies working hard on behalf of the gothic community for events at whitby during the generically named whitby goth weekend. This doesnt take into account events that were held at the lord granby, the Shambles, the angel etc throughout the entire town.

    Please take at look at this group on facebook for a veiw of just what happens around the town during that weekend, and not just the events at the Spa such as your article seems to imply!/

    Yrs –

    Plenty o Horne

  183. I believe, though I stand to be corrected, Dan Johnson resigned for personal reasons and that there are no further resignations. Lets wait and see?

    As for the political unrest, silly secret meetings regards unrealistic proposals, thankfully they are proposals more business minded councillors can see through, proposals that should all be discussed in the open, proposals that should never reach any extraordinary meetings let alone meetings in seeeeecrrrret, proposals given two calculations on any calculator show expenditure and costs that make it absolutely clear that they are absurd ideas, not in the public interest and should not even merit a proposal.

    Should Whitby Town Council become part of the National Park, and only when it is a done deal, completed, sealed signed and delivered then perhaps ideas could be proposed, if need be, only if need be, even money raised or made available, European grants………

    The site WTC bid on is a building site that is for sale along with an old Magistrates Court that needs demolishing before building commences.

    I wish WTC would stop and think about the outcome of such ideas, the public perception……………………… do councillors never discuss anything with people on the street between full town council meetings?

    As for Cllr Carson bleating on about Standards Board, WTC should all be up before the Standards Board.

    £230,000 and after almost a full term in office your latter meetings are about finger pointing and Standards Boards…………….. what a bloody waste.

    WTC needs to have a board of Governor's like a school to keep it in line, made up of a good cross section of society, beginning with an accountant and a solicitor, shop keeper, fisherman, harbour users………………..parents, teachers, builders, labourers, people seeking homes, seeking work…..

    There has got to be a more effective and productive way of blowing quarter of a million pounds each year, yes almost A MILLION POUNDS OF WHITBY ELECTORS MONEY THIS COUNCIL TERM!

    For what, no councillors email addresses on WTC website and WTC possibly taking over monitoring the public seats in the town, that's if they have time between attending Standards Board meetings at £10,000 a time.

    Give me strength.


  184. Press Release



    NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN pursuant to Section 87 (2) of

    the Local Government Act 1972 that a casual vacancy

    exists in the office of Town Councillor for the West Cliff

    Ward in the Parish of Whitby.

    If, within 14 days (not counting Saturday, Sundays or

    Bank Holidays) after the date of this notice, a request

    for an election to fill the vacancy is made in writing to

    the Returning Officer of the Scarborough Borough

    Council by TEN ELECTORS for the Parish, an election

    will be held to fill the vacancy; otherwise the Town

    Council will fill the vacancy by


    The address of the Returning Officer of the Borough of

    Scarborough is :-

    Town Hall

    St. Nicholas Street


    YO11 2HG

    Dated 27th October 2010

    Pam Dobson Town Clerk

    Whitby Town Council

  185. I sat next to 3 ladies at the photography group last night. I overheard them talking about how both councils run Whitby, very badly in their eyes. The general consensus amongst them appeared to be that a lot of councillors never consult the public at all, and second to that, most councillors only have their own interests at heart. Made for interesting listening

  186. WTC Town Clerk Pam Dobson has once again demonstrated her incompetence.

    The quoted "TEN ELECTORS for the Parish" is a whopping blunder. In fact, it requires a request from TEN ELECTORS FOR THE WARD (in this case, West Cliff Ward).

    This has been accomplished and a bye-election has now been scheduled for Thursday 16th December.

    YUet to be confirmed, but the word is that there will be at least three candidates.

    Ex WTC Councillor Mike Ward (whose resignation on grouinds of no confidence in the Council's competence, as well as his strenuous objection to the 'veil of secrecy' mind-set) tells that the core cadre of the Council is desperately trying to rustle up a 'crony' candidate – one of whom told Mike, "I wouldn't touch 'em with a barge-pole".

    At the last Poll of 'no confidence' (back in June 2010), only 32 electors (out of an electorate numbering 10,700) supported the Council – the Councillors and their spouses!

    What rhymes with 'golden anchors'?

  187. Superb article. More like this, please!

  188. The Man In The White

    Oi Bowman, with that 1970's haircut , you look like a looney leftie tree hugger. 🙂

  189. this report is typical of blind biggots from the south,
    i have travelled country wide fishing ,and hollidaying in this great and beautiful country,
    and middlesbrough is far from being the worst place to live,
    in my opinion.

  190. Wat a cracking little read that was, i could picture it vividly ,walking the shore with them,

    i visit the area on a regular basis, i have allso bought a book on the histiry of staithes from the little post office there,

    no mattar how many times you visit the area there is allways something new to find.

    more articles like this please.

  191. I lived in Middlesborough for 3 years and have visited the town since being very young. I do have a soft spot for the boro and since Mallon has been in charge the town centre has been cleaned up no end, and is now also much more family friendly. Always plenty to do in Middlesborough.

  192. I would agree. The place needs a big wall building around it to stop all the thugs and car theives from coming over to Whitby. I red somewhere that the town has got the UK’s highest percentage of teenage mothers. Crack and Heroin are big problems as is prostitution. Thank god they got kicked out of Yorkshire.

  193. Middlesborough isnt such a bad place really. Some of the local louts let the place down, but mostly the people are good and it has good shopping.

  194. If you want a free STD get yourself in the bongo international. Its rife.

  195. The Man In The White

    Some clowns on here wanted us under the middlesboro council instead of scarboro. That's when it would be time for me to return to geneva if that ever happened.

  196. A few points to raise :

    1. Who wanted us under Middlesborough Council ? It would be better if you let us know who, and where we can read more about it. Are these people on record saying we should shift to Middlesbrough Council.

    2. Please dont refer to people as clowns. Last warning !!

    3. Why do you believe Middlesbrough council would be so bad for us ?

    Its time you got involved properly in debate rather than just a few lines aimed at getting peoples backs up. You say you want to be taken seriously so now is your chance, please put some meat on the bones of your comment.

  197. The Man In The White suit

    There was a meeting quite a few years back, where someone off this forum was in attendance , and the matter of being under middlesboro council was brought up, with the idea of Whitby being the premier seaside resort of teeside and money being ploughed in to attract tourists on a massive scale.

    The truth in my opinion is that we would end up like skeggy with a load of scruffs.

    I will never name anyone on here Glenn after Nigel threatened me with legal action on another thread.

    • I think if you speak the truth and you have evidence to back it up, you arent breaching any confidentiality procedures or slandering anyone, then you have nothing to worry about. If you are involved on a local council in some capacity, then surely you know this better than me. Freedom of speech is alive and well on Real Whitby too.

      Do you think it would be good or bad for us to come under Middlesborough Council ? I would agree with the person you mention, that Whitby would fair better financially under a Middlesbrough council. This is only my opinion and a poorly informed one at that as I dont really follow politics that much. As an observer, I believe that Middlesbrough council run a service for their inhabitants whereas its my belief that SBC run a business often at our expense. From the 2, I would prefer the first. I would be interested to know what you think. If you think Middlesbrough would be bad for us, then fair play to you, but please give us a bit more to go on.

    • The truth is never liablous/slanderous

  198. I wouldnt want to live anywhere else to be honest, and ive been all over the country. What other town the size of Boro has a hospital like ours? When i see patients getting treated fom Whitby, Scarborough, Durham and Cumbria, it makes me proud that we have that facillity.

    Just a thought, but i feel, that if Boro was a southern town, then c4 wouldnt have chose it, as the worst.

    I suppose its something we have to live with. Recently, a couple with 3 kids from London relocated to Boro and couldnt believe they have given a 4 bedroomed house with a large garden. Originaly, they where on a 7 year waiting list in london for a one bedroomed flat.

    Up the Boro, literally

  199. some places of middlesbrough are rough but every were has bad places, just there not brodcast, good people the teesiders and very freindly, rather live in middlesbrough than london <<<<<<< now that is a sespit, totally unfair to lable middlesbrough worst place to live just cause sum pompous news paper writer says so, give me teesiders anytime over pompous little bell ends anytime.

  200. Sorry i didnt have time to leave a detailed response earlier! The centre of Middlesbrough is like this :hurt: :nerd: :scare: :alien: :sick: :gum: :ugly: :butt: However, soon as you drive a couple of miles in any direction, you hit countryside, villages, and some quality fishing! I would say if you go to Leeds / Liverpool / Manchester / London / Sunderland / Newcastle (and i’ve lived in a couple of these places) it’s much the same but Bigger!

  201. First class pedestrianized shopping, excellent cinemas, superb restaurants to suit every taste, Stunning beaches, moors, forests in easy driving distance…………….oh yes and a football team that repeatedly and consistently breaks your heart, what more could anyone want ?

  202. i luv these bloggs

  203. anyone been down the avenue at sleights to see what pete budd has left for the neighbours to see??

  204. My most recent email on this topic to John Woodhead – the SBC Borough Engineer – who seems to have been somewhat economical with the truth:

    [Thursday afternoon]


    Referring to your email to me of 27th October 2010 (copied below for your convenience of reference), I draw your attention in particular to your statement:

    “I am informed that all the necessary consents are in place for this to be executed”.

    This would appear to be at variance with the report on the Whitby Gazette (and, I would imagine, in tomorrow’s paper):

    which begins:

    ANCIENT monuments have been damaged after a medieval field near Whitby Abbey was dug up without permission.

    I look to you now for an exhaustive explanation (“All the necessary consents?” Really? Whom did you consult? Exhaustive?) for how this can have arisen.

    Clearly, someone has handed out a crock of misinformation here, John – either you, to me, or someone else – to you.

    I want to know which and I want to know who. Accountability, John.

    Never mind the FOIA on this occasion. I just want some straight and honest answers. Immediately, please.

    I do not appreciate being fed misinformation. Straightforward transparency is the order of the day.



    (I wonder what the bridgemen think about Mr Woodhead?)

  205. The Man In The White

    I want some straight honest answers too Nigel , pity you only answer when it suits

    • “Nigel”… Someone brave enough to be open about who they are, what they think, and what they say. You hide behind silly names, come out with some very questionable crap, and are full of your own self importance. I DO NOT wonder why.

      • Nice. Nigel And Nick, The Laurel and Hardy of Real Whitby.

        • If you say so. Pity really; you have the opportunity to tell the rest of the community who you really are, instead you offer jibes and insults. The mark of a little boy bullied at school pehraps, or maybe a bully that never grew up? Sadly, it doesn’t matter which, because you aren’t worth wasting my time on. Although it is worth saying that I’m not going to reveal who you really are just yet…

  206. I reported seeing Children clambering over the ancient monument ruins of Whitby Abbey to English Heritage.

    I also pointed out to them that I resented the fact that I had to pay to enter a religious place and the fact they had one tiny leaflet on St Hilda and nothing on the Anglo Saxon period at all. This was a place of huge significance to the religious world you would have thought they would have done their homework better and the site monitored as it is a religious place, not just a pretty place to take a photo.

  207. Two candidates confirmed for the WHITBY West Cliff Ward bye-election on Thusday 16th December 2010. (Voting 7:00am to 10pm at the Leisure Centre).

    Sean Anthony RIXHAM-SMITH

    Peter Andrew BUDD

    Both candidates represent local pro-Whitby values and local decision-making, and neither is a ‘stooge’ or ‘crony’ or ‘patsy’ of the old guard. A win/win election!!!

  208. The Man In The White suit

    Oh my god!

  209. well done pete&shaun.we all hope that whitby will now regain DEMOCERY

  210. The Man In The White suit

    Your spelling is as bad as mine!

  211. Two men who both have Whitby's best interests at heart are standing; well done to both of them, and I hope people turn out in large numbers to vote for them.

  212. While I can appreciate 'a bad few' creating a bad rep for Middlesbrough folk in Whitby it should perhaps be remembered how much cash Whitby's economy gets from the day trippers, fish and chippers etc.

    I've lived on the outskirts for 8 years and seen less trouble on my street than my former home on the edge of the moors.

  213. My wife is quite a fan of relaxing at the Marine’s bar with one of there expertly prepared cocktails. A treat perhaps but we went there with her family in mid November and their three course menu for £12:95 was excellent value and delicious from start to finish.
    The pianist sang a great version of Stevie Wonder’s “Golden Lady” too.
    Try their Zubrowka vodka with apple juice.

  214. The Arundal Hotel in Whitby is having a haunted lock in on 3 December…anyone going??

  215. Its advertised thus:

    On Friday 3rd December 2010 9:00pm till 3:00am
    Spend an evening with a difference whilst staking out one of your areas most haunted buildings (Arundel House (Whitby)).
    Built in the 1880s this hotel has had reports of ghostly activity in nearly every room from visions of a lady to footsteps heard on the stairs along with strange bangs and disembodied voices.
    £27 per person. for tickets or more info visit http://WWW.SPIRITSEEKERS.INFO or call 07915670663

  216. Fascinating hobby/job you have there Mike, always been interested in fossils (specially on our coast) but just don't have the time to pursue it. Some fantastic pieces there, the Turtle looks great! Look forward to seeing the finished piece found at Kettleness.

  217. Firstly, i envy that job! It was always something i was interested in when i was younger and i ended up studying geology at uni. I often went out collecting fossils, and remember the moment when i found a round nodule with the merest hint of fossil poking out. One hit from the hammer and it broke apart to find a fantastic ammonite or belemnite – you just didnt know what would turn up and that was one of the exciting parts! Studying the rocks, it's possible to consider what environment the creature lived in, how it came to settle, under what conditions it fossilized and then, after millions of years, it is prized out into the open to reveal it's own story to the keen eye! Brill.

    I haven't had the privilage of visiting Mike's shop, but will keep an eye out for it! The whitby / staithes area is a fantastic place to follow your love of geology and sea fishing in one. Cheers for the article


  218. Fantastice article Glenn next time im up in Whitby i will have to pay Mike a visit

  219. Hi Alan, if you let me know when your up here, I will arrange to come down with you.

  220. What a cracking article, realy fascinating stuff. Just another aspect of the coast that most of us know very little about….thanks for sharing.

    Great stuff Mike.

  221. Great to see stories like this on Real-Whitby. Whitby has so many facets. The more we see on the site, the more the site will reflect what Whitby is all about. Bring 'em on!

  222. Hi Nigel, When I first had the "Real Whitby" idea this is the sort of thing I had in mind. Whilst the site will cover many things I really want to uncover the stories of everyday life that makes Whitby the place it is. I have a lot of ideas for similar articles, I also want interviews with Real Whitby folk on the site, your good self included. I just need the time to do it all.

  223. Great photos, stunning night-time shots. I wish mine would come out as good!!

  224. Absolutely excellent photo's the one looking towards the bridge from the steps would grace any christmas card…well done !!!

  225. Fantastic pictures Glenn thank for posting them for us all to share with you

  226. really nice pics love the 1 of the huge swell coming in on the pier below

  227. The Man In The White

    Great stuff Glenn , it's been lovely here in oz, I've just got up! Going to pop for a jog, get some brekkie then get a cab to the cricket! Come on England !

    I hope the snow is still there when I get back!

  228. great pics glenn!!!!

  229. fantastic snow shots , thanks for sharing them

  230. Great snow shots Glen – love the big waves curling on West Pier end !

  231. Love the photos! It really does make this country look much cleaner!xx

  232. Thanks for all the positive comments guys. Im really looking forward to getting my new camera for Christmas and taking more nice photos for the site.

  233. Yes, really nice pictures. A nice addition to what is becoming a really fantastic website and local resource. Keep up the good work mate and I’m sure the site will become a big success. I’m really enjoying the interesting debates too. Nigel, Angela and The Man In The White Suite are now top of my daily online reading list.

  234. I have just logged onto this site today for the first time. We usually spend time in the summer in and around Whitby so I’m fascinated to see the wintery snow scenes. I particularly like the way you have caught the snow as it has settled on the cliffs, beach and piers so near to the sea – strange but true! Congratulations on capturing these rare sights; these are really great pictures. Thank you so much for sharing them; Needless to say ‘Real Whitby’ has now been added to my ‘favourites’ list.

  235. We’ve frequently been to the WHG for special occasions, and find it reliably good. I’m a great seafood fan, as is the other half who loves their bouillabaisse and lobster dishes. I have a daughter who is a steak fiend, and they offer a good range of choices of sauce etc. The chips are brilliant. The main down side for me is the ambience – for some reason, it just doesn’t feel warm – and I don’t mean the temperatre

  236. Fabulous – keep them coming, folks!

  237. Excellent article. This is the stuff that will bring Real-Whitby a huge readership from far and wide. Well done, Kevin – and well done Glenn, for raising R-W’s game!

  238. Just a thought:

    Have you tried asking Alan Wastell if he would like to contribute some Whitby photos?

  239. Runswick Bay is absolutely fabulous, apart from the parking, very limited, but I suppose it limits the amount of people flocking there at peak times, but a shame as the beach goes for miles im sure there would be plenty of room!


    —– Original Message —–
    From: Nigel
    To: John Riby
    Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 6:02 PM
    Subject: Re: East Pier Lighthouse,Whitby Harbour

    Hi John,

    It has been a long day and I am only now dealing with my incoming emails. Thank you for your rather tardy response to my earlier reminder.

    I am a little unclear as to your intended meaning on a number of points, so I will adopt the procedure of annotating your remarks (in red bold) where a little elucidation would be greatly appreciated.




    —– Original Message —–

    From: John Riby
    To: Nigel
    Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2010 4:52 PM
    Subject: East Pier Lighthouse,Whitby Harbour

    Hello Nigel,

    Sorry for the delay in getting back to you about your recent enquiry about the possibility of a group renting the above.

    On the face of it there would appear to be no reason why the Council could not let the lighthouse providing that it is deemed by those interested parties to be fit for purpose and to be a safe structure.

    Would you please identify who it is that you mean by ‘those interested parties’? (It would seem to me that the only ‘parties’ involved here would be SBC, of the first part, and the community group, of the second).

    So far as I am aware ,although it is not in a perilous condition in terms of public access around the structure ,it would likely need an awful lot of work before it could be ‘occupied’.

    It is unclear to me what you mean by ‘occupied’. Please explain. (As far as I am aware, there has been no suggestion of ‘occupancy’ beyond the obvious requirement of access in order to proceed with restoration).

    This work would ,no doubt ,be expensive given the character of the structure.The Council does not currently have the financial resources available at this time to carry out a full assessment or to implement ,other than modest, safety works therefore the onus to take this idea forward would have to be with interested parties and not the Council.

    [Again, I felt I had made it clear that the very purpose of the community group taking on the Lighthouse was to perform any necessary restoration work. I am, of course, at this stage unable to define a timescale over which this could be accomplished. That would require a survey of the present state of the structure. If you have such to hand I would be very happy to go over that with the community group.]

    If anyone was seriously interested in pursuing this we would therefore need to agree a fully costed schedule of restoration works,specification and funding needed from the interested parties,with indemnities in place etc upon its occupation/use.

    [Again, this can be addressed only in light of the matters I have outlined above. It would seem to me from your earlier statements that SBC has no plans whatsoever to conduct any maintenance work of any kind on the Lighthouse in the foreseeable future. What kind of ‘indemnities’ can you have in mind regarding work that can only, by definition, be a greater contribution to the longevity of the structure than no plan at all?]

    I assume that a charitable entity would be established and a number of trustees would need to sign the lease.My colleague Mike Close would be the best person to provide you with the exact requirements.

    [Would you be kind enough to have Mike Close provide me with a (of course non-binding) template of the kind of lease the community group may be called upon to embrace? Thank you.]

    Not very encouraging I know ,but it is a pragmatic response and I hope this helps in any further considerations.

    [There is but one consideration – namely, to ensure that the present policy of allowing the Lighthouse to continue to deteriorate is improved upon. If SBC is unwilling or unable to mainain its assets, surely it is better that such work as is necessary pass into other hands than to simply allow the Lighthouse to fall into ruin? That would be lamentable. The Lighthouses form an (forgive a somewhat over-used – indeed, hackneyed – adjective) iconic part of Whitby’s maritime heritage. The community group, however poor its future performance, can scarcely do worse than SBC’s present performance. It is, of course, possible that Whitby Town (Parish) Council may wish to take a hand in preserving the Lighthouse, though their record suggests otherwise. That is beyond discussion. Let us try to get this show on the road, as they say.]


    John Riby

    I will write to John again today, Tuesday 14th Decemeber 2010.

  241. From: Nigel
    To: John Riby
    Cc:; Cllr.Mike Ward ; Cllr.Joseph Plant ; ; ; ; Cllr.Dilys Cluer ; ; ; Chris Firth ; Cllr.Dorothy Clegg ; ; GLENN KILPATRICK ;
    Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 10:36 AM
    Subject: Re: East Pier Lighthouse,Whitby Harbour

    Mr John RIBY – Head of Technical Services – SBC


    I regret to note that I have received nothing from you, or from Mike Close, since my email to you of 26th October 2010, on the subject of the restoration of the East Pier Lighthouse. I had hoped to do so because I specifically informed Councillor Peter Popple that I was awaiting developments at your end.

    In the interim, circumstances have changed.

    The community group on whose behalf I have been attempting to progress the matter of the continuing deterioration of the East Pier Lighthouse are now having misgivings.

    As you will readily observe from the attached photo, the once imperceptible (to the naked eye) inclination of the East Pier Lighthouse toward the east has apparently increased – perhaps as a result of the pile-driving around the landward end of the East Pier Extension, immediately adjacent to where the Lighthouse is situated. The attached photograph has a rectangle superimposed upon it to highlight the visible deviation from the perpendicular.

    The community group retains its interest in restoring the interior of the Lighthouse, but feels, in the light of these fresh concerns about its structural integrity, that it would need compelling assurances that the building itself would remain the responsibility of SBC or the new Harbour Board – if that body ever actually performs its intended functions.

    Therefore, I believe it may be time for you to approach other bodies. Perhaps Whitby Civic Society would like to take an interest? Or even Whitby Town (Parish) Council?

    The community group remains committed to the restoration of the interior of the Lighthouse. The structural integrity remains your responsibility.

    Please get back to me on this before the Christmas break. Thank you.

    Kind regards,


  242. Absolutely beautiful images – so lovely and wintery! Wish I could see it for real! This is the next best thing though!

    I’ve added some to my website here:

    and here:

    Thanks for sharing the lovely pics! 🙂

    • Really pleased you like them Charlotte and thanks for the link back to our site. Much appreciated. Theres lots more images on the site that are free to use online in exchange for a link to our site.

  243. Thats definately near Staithes. Cant remember the name of the little village but its the top side of Staithes near borrowby. Theres a nice little pub there and its behind the pub. Im right arent I !!

  244. Im with Mirian, its Dale House at Staithes.

  245. nah dont be silly. Thats the place where the white witches live. Golden Grove

  246. Looks like the small waterfall at redgates

  247. Good game, though, isn’t it?

    I think we should have one of these for each of the 12 days of Christmas!

  248. I’m with Col brown
    Falling Foss

  249. The Man In The White suit

    It’s Dale house, I saw him take the photo! I was sat in the pub at the time! Sorry to spoil it for everyone.

  250. Off topic – but I had to share this!

    A guy goes to the supermarket and notices an attractive woman waving at him.

    She says hello.

    He’s rather taken back because he can’t place where he knows her from.

    So he says, ‘Do you know me?’

    To which she replies, ‘I think you’re the father of one of my kids,’

    Now his mind races back to the only time he has ever been unfaithful
    to his wife and says, ‘Are you the stripper from the bachelor party
    that I made love to on the pool table with all my buddies watching
    while your partner whipped my butt with wet celery???’

    She looks into his eyes and says calmly,

    ‘No, I’m your son’s teacher.’

  251. The Man In The White suit

    “Guess where”

  252. The answer is Golden Grove near Ruswarp.

  253. Cuts cuts and more cuts whilst they are still fiddling their expenses,

      • As a person who frequents the shoreline more than most, often visiting very remote areas I find the whole thing very concerning. Local knowledge is essential for the coastguard. If I was to fish at Goldsborough one evening and I fell and broke my leg, presuming I or someone else was able to raise the alarm, I do wonder if a coastguard in Scotland would have a clue where I was. If I said I’m laid at the bottom of the goat track would they know where to come for me. Its a shame Mr Goodwill isn’t available for comment, I do wonder if he will be available for comment when someone dies because of cuts he sees as essential. We have Government quangos like Netgainmcz and Natural England having it large at the tax payers expense and Goodwill thinks its a bright idea to cut an emergency service. Most Annoyed……..

        • The Man In The White Suit

          Total agree, thanks to labour , our country will struggle to get back on it’s feet for years to come, and no doubt the coalition will play on this fact.

          Yet the gravy train is full steam ahead.

  254. The man in the White suit

    The looney left put us in this position, That’s where the blame lies

  255. The greedy bankers put us in this position and they are still at it, with a little help from the coaliton

  256. The man in the White suit

    Let me give you a example. Someone has a dog, they feed it at the table, it goes on the sofa, it does as it wants.

    But then , everything changes, the dog has a new owner who is more disciplined, he put a stop to all the dogs luxury’s . But it’s all in the dogs best interest, as he wants the dog to have a long, healthy life.

  257. The man in the White suit

    Alan, I’m not sure if you realise, but when the bankers did the damage, it was labour who were in charge!

    Next you will be saying it was maggie’s fault ! Ffs

  258. The man in the White suit

    Btw, I’m not for one minute sticking up for the Tories etc, I hate lot of them, There are just too many looney lefties on here with their blinkered views.

  259. Correct me if i am wrong but did not this coalition promise to kerb the greedy bankers, it looks now as if the are condonig what they are doing.

  260. The man in the White suit

    Alan, it was clearly labours fault that the country got into this position, what exactly do u want the coalition to do? Let me tell you this, if you tax the ballacks off the bankers or cap their bonus’s too much you will drive the abroad , which would be a total disaster,

    So Alan , what do u want the coalition to do?

  261. Well lets hope he never needs there services

  262. Does the mp in redcar and cleveland support the coastguards anybody got any imfo.

  263. Allrighty then, I’m an old git, I went to St Michaels primary school which was situated about 100m from the Fleece pub, the North end of the existing car park, the esk froze over what seemed like every winter, when we played football in the playground it was a common occurence that someone had to go over to the Midland bank side to retreive the ball from over the fence.
    There were upsides to this as in May/June we could always go crabbing at lunchtime and leave them in a tin can at the top of the slip to pick up on our way home then straight down to Tate Hill Pier to catch flatties we can now only dream about, in size and numbers.

  264. Great pics Glen – I enjoyed looking at them. Watersplatter is correct that in the 60s the upper harbour used to freeze some winters but it’s obviously rare now. Les I used to love float fishing for flounders with lobworms for bait – by the Shipyard or Viaduct on a summers day and sport was non stop but I never got one over a pound – you were knocking out 2lbers on peeler weren’t you? There were always big salmon leaping around in those days too – none ever took my worm

  265. Somw stunning photos there….great stuff

  266. I’ve sent the link to these photos to all our family who were brought up in Whitby and all are likewise amazed! Must have been like this in 63/64 winter but I was living in Sandsend which was like siberia all of Jan/Feb and all we had was a coal fire!!

  267. Blaim labour for every thing it was a global resession not labours fault lets not forget, and lets not forget who bailed the banks out yes labour the torys would have just left them to rot, so should the banks start paying back the bail out befor they start dishing the big bonuses out

  268. The abuses of fractional reserve banking kicked into high gear in the mid/late seventies. Thatcher came to power on the crest of the ‘greed wave’. She promptly emasculated the unions and initiated ‘the housing ladder’ mentality – profit through debt. When the housing market first slumped (’89/’90), it was kick-started by an unprecedented round of even more extreme fractional reserve banking. For those who do not already understand fractional reserve banking and the debt-slavery economy it produces, see Michael Rowbotham’s superb analysis of modern day economics:

  269. The Man In The White Suit

    Pmsl, I knew it wouldnt long untill the looney left mentioned maggie! How predictable !

    Alan, I can’t be bothered to to reply to you.

    Insult removed by Glenn

  270. Alan, I think you are right in what you say that the banks should pay back what they owe before they start dishing out bonuses.
    What would they rather have, a well paid job without the bonus for a year or two, or a place in the dole queue like all the civil servant jobs which are having to go with no choice?
    It is typical government attitude (whichever one, they are all as bad) lets cut the things which are easiest for us instead of listening to what is sensible. The Unions gave them sound ways to cut waste etc without cutting services and jobs, but they just ignored them.
    Lets just hope Mr Goodwill never needs the coastguard…they do a brilliant job!

  271. Sorry to go off at a tangent, but dont you just hate banks. I went in mine to take money out over the counter. They told me if I didnt start using the machine they would charge me £2 everytime I wanted money. I mean, without our money they wouldnt even have a job. Whats it all about. But the sad thing is you cant live without a bank these days. My employers wont pay me cash or cheque. Insurers wont deal cash, the list is endless. We are being ripped off and we cant even vote with our feet. If you keep your cash under the bed, half the notes end up out of date. Please dont ask to see underneath my bed though as thats viewing by appointment only.

  272. The Man In The White Suit

    Daft question, why don’t you use the machine Glenn?

    • I cant remember now, I was in there for something else, probably checking out why they have continual cancelled all my direct debits since July. So I thought whilst I was in there I would save the hassle of going to the machine and get money at the counter. Plus, call me old fashioned, but I like to deal with people. Would you believe that after I get the cash out the machine, I always say “Thankyou !!”. Half of Baxtergate thinks Ive lost the plot, but hey, whats new.

  273. “Please dont ask to see underneath my bed though as thats viewing by appointment only”….
    Ok, how about Thursday night about 6pm?? ~sniggers~ only joking……I much prefer Friday 3pm 😉

    Yeah, banks..dont go there with can vote with your threaten them that you will bank elsewhere..make sure you do it really loudly so everyone in the branch can hear…works for me!
    You can do lots of things with the machine now, put money in, take money out, top up your phone, get a statement…..pity there isnt a button on there to vote to sack your MP!!

  274. The Man In The White Suit

    I little tip for you all, open a current account with a few banks, don’t use them, wait for the letter offering you £200 in vouchers or cash ( they all do it or similar ). Then off you go. You can’t beat a bit of free money

  275. Nationwide..brilliant! Cant do enough for me…go in as much as you like. You can get mini statements from the machine too which is very handy. Plus you get free travel insurance etc.

  276. The Man In The White Suit

    Plenty of bankers on here by the looks of things.

    In all seriousness , the banks can be hard work, I am on my 6 th current account in 4 years, all because they say I should have a business account instead of my current account. All due to my account activity.

    What a load of rubbish

  277. Oh ‘Bankers’…yeah…have to be savvy with the cash these days 😉

  278. The Man In The White Suit

    Hello , just an idea, I’m having a night in tonight, so will be in my hotel with the old laptop, then it’s of to oz tomorrow ,

    My idea is I will have a sort of ” surgery” where u can ask me any questions you want!

    I will be here from 7.00pm onwards, hope to see you all!

  279. 2nd January 2011 – still trying to get some sense out of SBC:

    Mr John RIBY – Head of Technical Services – SBC


    Happy New Year to you.

    You will note that I have taken the liberty of copying Mike Dawson into this email. Mike is, I believe, the Secretary of the Whitby Civic Society – a body which may well wish to take an interest in the subject matter.

    I am sorry to hear about Councillor Popple’s health misfortune. Would you please be able to tell me who will assume responsibility for Peter’s duties during his convalescence, in relation to the Harbour Board? Thank you.

    Moving on:

    You will recall that I made an approach to the Council back on 12th September 2010 in regard to the possibility of arresting the disintegration of the Whitby East Pier Lighthouse through the means of leasing it to a community group with a will to restore and preserve it.

    You have not been helpful in the matter. Residents are approaching me almost daily expressing grave concern about the state (and future) of the Lighthouse. You are aware that I have also raised the matter with Councillor Popple – without response.

    It becomes increasingly the popular perception that Richard Ineson’s assessment, in his email of 27th October 2010 is, in fact, a true reflection of the Council’s position:

    “We don’t want it, but we would rather it fell into the sea before we let anyone else have it, same with the old town hall.”

    I hope you will agree that this must not be allowed to happen.

    Following the news of the gaping 10′ square hole in the upper surface of Scarborough’s Lighthouse Pier:

    concerns about the angle of inclination of Whitby’s East Pier Lighthouse are far from allayed.

    The advent of the new Harbour Board and the concomitant reduction in the remit of Technical Services may well be imposing a burden on you and your colleagues. Notwithstanding, I have no intention of letting this matter drop and thereby allowing the deterioration of the Lighthouse to go beyond recall.

    Therefore, let us move ahead to find a practicable solution to the vital, for Whitby, task of preserving one of its most celebrated and iconic landmarks. My most recent email (of many) on this subject dates from 14th December 2010. A response is now well overdue.

    Kind regards,


  280. This article is also open for discussion in our online forums :

  281. The Man In The White Suit

    Decided to go to darts but I’m going back to hotel straight after, I’m sat 4 Seat away from prince Harry , god bless him

  282. Unsurprised to see that the Ego-Drip in the White Suit’s surgery was a non-starter.

  283. . . . and on FaceBook.

  284. Have you a link for the facebook discussion Nigel

  285. The Man In The White Suit

    They all bottled it!

  286. The Man In The White Suit

    I don’t blame them for not letting you lot have a free run of the lighthouse, it would end up with 3-4 people dossing in it, maybe it’s time the council looked into what goes off in those ” huts” at the side of the railway / esk!!!!! ,

  287. The Man In The White Suit

    Sorry , I’m drunk, I shouldn’t mention the council tax free huts

  288. Looks like SBC could be responsible for forcing themselves to restore it . . .

    Grade: II
    Date Listed: 4 December 1972

    Planning (Listed Buildings and Conservation Areas) Act 1990

    42 Execution of works required by listed building enforcement notice.

    (1) If any of the steps specified in the listed building enforcement notice have not been taken within the [F11period for compliance with the notice], the authority may—

    (a) enter the land and take those steps, and

    (b) recover from the person who is then the owner of the land any expenses reasonably incurred by them in doing so.

    (2) Where a listed building enforcement notice has been served in respect of a building—

    (a) any expenses incurred by the owner or occupier of the building for the purpose of complying with it, and

    (b) any sums paid by the owner of the building under subsection (1) in respect of expenses incurred by the local planning authority in taking steps required by it, shall be deemed to be incurred or paid for the use and at the request of the person who carried out the works to which the notice relates.

    Perhaps our learned friend can make a useful contribution?

  289. Spot on. What makes Whitby a place you want to come back to again and again? It’s not the fast-food (save the Royal) or the hotels – it’s the ancient beauty of the place. Don’t wreck it! Keep the local shops and keep the special character.

    (mind, I haven’t got over the Marine Cafe changing into a trendy bistro bar called ‘M’ yet)

  290. Readers may wish to email the following story to our man Goodwill:

    > Drew Mahood, watch manager at Humber Coastguard, said: “Coastguards do not spend all of their time dealing with incidents on cliffs, at the beach or out to sea.

    “Our equipment is optimised for life-saving on the coast. But it can also be used to assist in incidents of this nature, when severe weather strikes inland.”

    Robert is perhaps unaware of that fact.

  291. The Man In The White Suit

    The gravytrain is unstoppable

  292. goodwill/badwill should rember that he is an mp for a very dangerous part of the norht east coast.elected by the people to take care of there intrests.his present position on coastguard closures makes him not fit for purpose

  293. My home Hamlet, never been able to find any historical references. The house where my family live was the old hotel. Any one know anything about Golden Grove from WW2 era, I have heard lots from passers by over the years when I lived there

  294. take a line from bobby esk
    we should fight to save and then rebuild our hospital
    use your fingers on the keys to contact jane brown chief executive
    york primary care trust or w.h.a.g. whitby hospital action group to give your support
    lets see if you all can beat pete budds altime debated topic
    for the good of whitby most of all we the future of the town
    cllr dennis collins

  295. A very nice article, although no warning about not gathering wild stuff unless you are with an expert or know it is safe etc etc…..

  296. For whatever reason my personal internet browser doesn?t display this page correctly? Anyhow, it was a really interesting article, continue the good function as well as I will be back again for additional

  297. I may be wrong, Dennis, but I believe there is a rule prohibiting Councillors from commenting in the public domain as ‘Councillor’ or ‘Cllr’ whoever, since opinions are deemed to be personal and not statements which the commenter can make on behalf of the Council, whose stance may be completely different.

    I mention it because Councillors have been threatened with being reported to the Standards Committee for this in the past.

    I guess it depends on whether or not anyone is sharpening their knives for you.

    I fully endorse your remarks, by the way.

  298. The man in the White suit

    Great advertisement Nigel , especially if some idiot wants to grass on him,

    We had a lad at school like you, we nicknamed him “rule book” ,

  299. The man in the White suit

    Dont let Nigel put you off Dennis , please keep posting your opinion.

  300. Email from ENGLISH HERITAGE

    —– Original Message —–
    From: GREEN, Diane
    To: ‘Nigel’
    Cc: REDFERN, Neil
    Sent: Monday, January 17, 2011 11:24 AM
    Subject: RE: WHITBY East Pier Lighthouse

    Dear Nigel,

    Thank you for your e-mail.

    We are concerned to hear that the lighthouse on the East Pier is in poor repair and also that it is leaning and indeed that its angle of inclination appears to have increased. If the lean was an historic one and if it was now stable we would not be unduly concerned but if for some reason it has begun to move then action will be necessary. I am making enquiries with Scarborough District Council and will come back to you when I hear from them.

    With best wishes,

    Diane Green

  301. For years Pete Budd managed to run a busines in Whitby without any problem with the law or the courts. However he became a councillor and managed to upset WTC and SBC.
    Timing tells me that Pete’s misfortunes stemmed from then and his contretemps with some Whitby and Scarborough councillors and officers.
    Hell hath no Fury like a nasty councillor.

  302. Some people just love to moan. The prices are pretty reasonable for fish and chips in the countries number 1 seaside resort. Those people writing about Peterhead need to remember that the town is a dead end blot on the landscape. If you visit a beautiful town like Whitby then you should expect to pay a premium on everything. I for one don’t mind and looking at the que outside Trenchers and The Magpie I think I’m not alone.

    • total rubish. Whitby locals and visiters have been ripped off as long as I can remember. 63 years.Let us not be ashamed to tell everyone that our local tradespeople are takeing us all for a ride?

  303. I agree with Andrew. You get what you pay for. Trenchers is a cut above the rest, that’s for certain.

  304. Whitby is a major rip off and has been for some time now. Too many people on a get rich quick drive. There are fair prices to be found in Whitby, you just need to shop around. Perhaps Real Whitby could do a price comparison page on fish and chip prices – Just an idea as your always saying you need help with the site.

  305. Aye its pricey in there, but very good food
    I have no problem with them charging that price, a product is only worth what somone is willing to pay for it so if customers are buying it then they must assume they are getting value.
    what is not good though is if they are misleading people over the market cost of the food, that could be a bit of a mistake on trenchers part as no one likes being lied to and it would certainly put me off

  306. I have noticed over the last few years the prices of the fish and chip shops,
    and resteraunts has greatly exceeeded inflation,

    my wife and i visit whitby on a regular basis,and have started to take a picnic,
    but you no the old saying ,a fool and his money are soon parted,

    and i am no fool

  307. The man in the White suit

    The Man In The White Suits review of fish n’ chip shops in Whitby.

    Cheapest- Railway,

    By far the cheapest chippy in Whitby, yet the quality and quantity are always good , I like to pop for a quick pint across the road whilst they cook my fish!

    Most expensive- magpie

    I love to have a relaxing meal in the magpie and have never been dissapointed, always great service, the fish and chips are second to none, but it is worth trying some of the other dishes such as my personal favourite of fish pie!

    Now a negative , I once had a takeaway from the magpie, and it was rubbish and I will never go to the takeaway again!

    Best- Riverside

    I have never had a bad meal from here, lovely fresh fish and decent portions and great curry source! only pain is waiting in the long que!!!!

    • Man in a Suit, I think this is the only time I’ve agreed with one of your posts. Except that I’ve not (yet?) had a poor take away from the Magpie. Sadly, the price of fish is likely to rise more in the next few years.

  308. The prices are displayed outside so if you dont like them dont go in simple but they are over the top mr chips for me or riverside chip shop at the top end of church street there is one thing about whitby the buisness rates are stupid down in town the overheads are mad.


  309. vat, tax, buisiness, rates, staff ,paye tax , supliers ,loans mortgages buisiness loans you havnt a clue how hard it is to be self employed at the moment i own java cafe in whitby and i just work for the tax man if all the moaning twats who come here and say its too expensive have a go see if you can doi it cheeper you havnt a son of a guning clue

    • What a fine example you are, owning a local business and calling people (potential customers) “moaning twats”! I hope your customer service is better than your comments on here.

      When you lose custom just try engaging your brain before opening your mouth (or in this case using your fingers to type on your keyboard).

    • Well how charming are you!!!??? I visit Whitby at least once a year, I have just read that your Cafe?? is one of the best for coffee, I am visiting Whitby in August for my Pearl Wedding and I can assure you I will definately not be visiting you!!!!! And do you know why????!!!! Because I am NOT a TWAT, I will be telling every one I know what an awful attitude you have towards your prospective customers.

  310. The man in the White suit

    Sell it to me then Ben ! How much?

  311. Looking at post number one; ‘The countries number 1 seaside resort’ you need to travel more.
    Whitby is a typical rip off resort which is getting worse, with the result we simply don’t visit anymore. Please Whitby, keep on over inflating your prices. Whitby is expensive in fuel to visit, pain to park in and a rip off capital. There’s no cure for high prices like high prices. In the current economic climate can Whitby’s future be sustained?
    Ben Laws, if your business running skills are as good as your literacy skills I’m not surprised you’re struggling.

    • Whitby WAS voted Britain’s best seaside resort by Holiday Which in 2006.
      Like all popular seaside resorts today and yesterday, you do expect to have to pay slightly over the odds for some things in Whitby, especially food.
      But you need to ask yourself WHY so many people still visit Whitby, D Herron. I visit regularly and I live in Teesside. I’m retired and can afford to pay spend a bit of my money when I’m there. In fact, I think that it is well worth the visit just to enjoy the charm of the place. Even after over 50 years of regular visits, I still prefer Whitby to any other seaside town. It has plenty to offer for all ages.
      Of course some things could be better, as is the case in all seaside resorts. The piers have not been properly maintained and now require major work to restore them to their former glory, and some of the resort’s other iconic treasures could do with a facelift, but to complain about the difficulty in parking and the cost of fuel in getting there is strange to say the least.
      You need to buy fuel to drive anywhere and nobody is forcing you to visit Whitby. There are plenty of less popular seaside resorts where you will have less trouble parking your vehicle. In fact, I would advocate a park and ride scheme for Whitby in the high season as it would make walking around the harbour and some other areas safer and a far more pleasant experience.
      I don’t find travelling there, buying fish and chips, and an ice-cream to be an expensive day out, and there is plenty to see and do without spending any money at all.

      • Like a lot of visitors to Whitby, Andy hasn’t considered what it is like to actually live in a town where prices are dictated by people who are on holiday and are only suffering these prices for, at most a week, and generally, only for a day.
        Day trippers aren’t bothered about paying through the nose for everything, but you should try living in this town full time.
        I have decided, reluctantly, that I am no longer willing to pay these prices and now rarely dine out in Whitby, drink a few halves per week instead of pints, have all of my groceries delivered from outside Whitby/do all of my shopping in Scarborough etc. The only thing I buy in Whitby nowadays is fresh meat.
        I used to be a good customer of many businesses in Whitby but I have been driven away, and I am sure that many people are following suit, the holiday makers can have it as far as I am concerned.

        • I forgot to mention the park and ride, yes Andy, it would be a good idea, it has been in the planning now since 2001, and the only thing we have to show for it is the famous’ bollard which never rises’ on St. Anne’s Staithe, and a bill for £330,000.
          The ill thought out scheme, as planned, is a fiasco, which seems to be aimed solely at providing parking spaces for the commercial sector, whilst the residents pay for everything, and don’t even get a parking space in return.

          • I also forgot to mention the Council Tax, my house is 2.78 metres wide – less than ten feet, old money; it is in Council Tax Band B, I pay £1190.20.
            The national average band is band D,

            In Whitby a Band D house owner pays £1530.77, the top band is band H, in Whitby a band H house owner pays £3050.52.

            So in Whitby the charges are :-

            Band B £1190.20 Band £1530.77 Band H £3050. 52

            In Westminster, where a lot of our M.P.s have property,these are the charges for the same bands :-

            Band B £534.82 Band D £687.62 Band H £1375.24

            In Kensington and Chelsea, one of the more prosperous Boroughs in the UK, the charges are as follows :-

            Band B £1119.07 Band D £1438.80 Band H £2877.60

            The most expensive house in the UK (although I understand that another property has recently taken this accolade) was 18-19, Kensington Palace Gardens, which was last sold for £90 million pounds and has 12 bedrooms, a jewel encrusted swimming pool, and garaging for twenty cars and whose lucky owner pays £2877.60 per annum.
            Mrs. Thatcher used to say that the Council Tax charges were lower in Conservative controlled areas because Conservative controlled Councils are more efficient.

            Both NYCC and SBC are Conservative controlled Local Authorities, so what happened here? Efficiency and fiscal prudence out to lunch again?

            Which brings us back to £28,400 showers, £330,000 wasted on ill planned park and ride schemes, £250,000 trees, £15,500 bollards which never rise, etc.etc. etc.

            • Some very interesting and informative points raised there, Richard.
              I now understand that it must be very expensive to live in the town and I fully empathise with the residents who have lived there for a lot of years.
              As I had no idea of the cost of living for Whitby residents, my comment was based purely from the perspective of a regular visitor to the town and based on your information, I would not want to live there.
              However, I have always loved Whitby and always thought that spending my time and money there was helpful to the local economy. I can see how some residents are resentful of day trippers because of the rip off situation, although I suspect that many of them also run businesses in the town and rely on the tourist industry in order to survive.
              I’m particularly saddened regarding the state of the piers because I am an angler who used to fish from them both on a regular basis from a very young age and throughout my teens, and I’m annoyed that SBC have not maintained them using some of the money that visitors have paid over the years in parking fees etc which go directly into their coffers.
              But everyone who has experienced the charms of Whitby over the years has their own reason for doing so, and I can understand that many residents would enjoy a much lower cost of living if holidaymakers and day trippers completely ignored the place. I know that I would definately consider moving there permanently in retirement if that was ever to happen.

  312. Hi
    Just logged in and noticed your (October) comment. Thank you for the offer of taking some photos of the cottage etc. We did have some professionally done in 2010 and if you can use them straight from the website for this page I would be greatful.

    Many regards


  313. It’s the same argument about the breweries though. People complain about how much the drinks cost in the Shambles or RAW but to be honest, they hardly make any money on the drinks they sell. 20p a drink probably.

    Whitby businesses are taxed to the max. They pay almost equal rates and rent to what you would pay near London yet we receive less visitors here. Think how many coffees you have to sell to pay for 2 staff, a cafe, insurance, VAT, rental and services? quite a few every hour would be my guess.

    Ben! Get your Facebook updated fella. You haven’t been on since July tut tut the Facebook community will shun you otherwise.

  314. Well put Ben. Exactly! I don’t think the sign referring to ‘market price’ is misleading at all, as the market price fluctuates so do the prices the restaurant in question pays for the fish. How is that misleading? Its fairly obvious that the point they try to make is the price is subject to change and therefore isn’t on a printed menu and put on a chalk board as ‘market price’.
    As for people moaning about the price of fish there – Go to Robertsons, Mister chips, Hadleys, Riverside e.t.c and yes it will be cheaper because they use frozen at sea which is approximately half the price of the fresh equivalent for them to buy… and are they half the price? Are they hell so no Trenchers is not expensive.

  315. There’s a few factors at play:

    1) Most business is Whitby make there money during the Weekend + holidays. A business in, say, Newcastle, operates 7 days/week, 52 weeks. Whitby, and any resort business, has less trading days to spread its fixed costs over. You don;t get rate relief for only opening in summer.

    2) Fish prices can be vert variabe. As an earlier poster mentions – If Trenchers is using fresh rather then frozen fish then that will make the dish more expensive.

    3) Trenchers changed hand a few years ago. They might have paid too much and are trying to make back their money.

    In common. Like other resorts, a lot of people by a business in buy a business in the economic up tick. In the main, the people are amateurs i.e. never run a business before. After all, they say, how hard is to run a .. B+B, pub, f+C, Newsagents. etc. To a certain extent, they are correct they small businesses are not too hard to run. Where they fall down is that they are very hard to run AND pay themselves a wage + pay down the debt. And so the problems begin. I had an experience this summer (not in Whitby but local) where the owners has put up prices AND reduced protion size. I won’t go back there now – ever. Thats the way free choice + markets work.

    Speaking on a personal basis, I find the Magpie stunningly good value. Yo ucannot compare Magpie prices + quality (both size of protion + sitting down to eat) with some horrible little greasy spoon serving up cheap frozen fish. If you don;t want to pay Magpie prices then go to Mr Chips – they offer the best quality/price trade off in town.

    Whitby could be worse – Look at Scarboroguh, where the only good places are Laterna, Golden Grid and Harbour Bar cafe. My mum likes Mother Hubbards though.

    AS far as commetns on the price of beer goes – forget, that is a rip-off. Its a agme of PubCos ripping off tennents who try and rip off cusotmers. Its ending in tears as I type.

  316. From memory, Pete’s ex wife ran the business.

  317. The Man In The White Suit


  318. This is always a great event, doesnt matter if you are a goth, emo or biker, they all seem to intermingle and have a great time. It never ceases to amaze me the detail and time spent by people in the clothing. A biker usually seen wearing a classic rock t shirt is suddenly transformed into something edwardian steampunk inspired. A great place to be

  319. amy,christie,sophie,faye,amy

    Was Not Very Nice Owner Was A Perve watching us in the shower and going to the toilet Site Was Very Noisy Owner was very intoxicated Look He was On Drugs How It Got A Rating As Number 2 I Will Never No Never Never Returning To This Site Ever Again Gives Whitby A Bad Name

  320. From the gazette article 3rd Jan

    “However, there was still some confusion amongst councillors as Mayor of Whitby Coun Terry Jennison wanted to know how the figure had been leaked”
    So does the public, Mr Mayor, and perhaps they also want to know why you consider that figure to be so secret that you describe its publication as “being leaked”.

    “NYCC Coun Jane Kenyon questioned the “gap” between the meeting last June which prompted Arriva to offer cash compensation and it coming to light now.”
    So does the public, Jane, and your question remains to be answered.

    Whatever happened to the openness and transparency we have been promised?

    That such a minor and straightforward issue could have become so drawn out in the farcical manner that Nigel has taken the trouble to display, in his collation of facts, is unbelievable.

  321. TMITWS, I have dim memories of my Nan owning or running The Railway chippy. I guess it would have been around 1973ish. Not sure. Ill have to check with my mum.

    Back to prices. A significant factor in food pricing in the local area is down to the number of little old ladies who hop off a bus from wherever and ask for ‘a pot of tea and large jug of hot water’ and then sit there for the afternoon. A good sign of business heading fro trouble is an A-board with the dread word ‘Pensioner’s special’.

  322. Oh, The Royal Fisheries on Baxtergate is very, very good too.

    Their trick to fresh fish is only cook it when its ordered. Its a bit longer to get your meal but the fish is fantastic.

  323. Wierdly enough, I remember a similar article in the YP a few years ago:

    (good old google):

    Two main problems with the UK coast:

    1) Industrial fishing – hovering sand eels to make cheap pig feed for cheap Danish bacon.

    2) The fishermen – both local + Spanish.

  324. > inscription V&D faintly visible.

    Man goes to Whitby. Gets VD. It’s been the case for 100s of years.

  325. I believe Al is quoting from this gazette story:

    I have since received this from Catherine Price:

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Catherine Price
    To: Nigel
    Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 9:33 AM
    Subject: Whitby Bus Services


    I am sure it is probably a misunderstanding but you seem to have
    mis-quoted me on the Real Whitby website.

    Page 37 of your diary states that “Catherine Price has also confirmed
    that ARRIVA’s Iain McInroy stated on the 4th January 2011 that ARRIVA
    had made known to Whitby Town (Parish) Council in June 2010 that ARRIVA
    was prepared to make £25,000 available.

    That is not what it says in my e-mail and I trust that you will make
    the necessary amendments to ensure the information in your diary is

    Thank you


    and I have responded, thus:

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Nigel
    To: Catherine Price
    Sent: Friday, February 04, 2011 3:49 PM
    Subject: WReal-Whitby etc


    Thank you for your email.

    There appears to be a possible source of misunderstanding in that, on my original PDF document (attached, for your convenience of reference), as provided to the Real-Whitby web-site, the Page-numbering appears at the bottom right of each page. On the Real-Whitby web-site, this is not clear. I would imagine that the entire text of my PDF has been copy/pasted without detailed re-formatting.

    I can only suggest that you have mistakenly assumed that the Page-numbers on the Real-Whitby web-site are at the top of each page, when, in fact, they are at the bottom. I trust that this explanation disposes of any misunderstanding in respect of page-numbering.

    Your email to me of 3.36pm on Monday 31st January 2011 starts on Page 36 of my PDF document, as provided to the Real-Whitby web-site, and is quoted verbatim, in full, continuing throughout the entirety of Page 37. The passage in question reads thus:
    4th January 2011

    The next time this issue was discussed with anyone at NYCC was when Iain McInroy and Mark Ellis, Directors from ARRIVA NE came to County Hall on 4th January 2010 to talk to our Director, David Bowe and Assistant Director Richard Owens about the proposed bus service reductions.

    During this meeting Iain McInroy mentioned that ARRIVA NE had had discussions with Whitby Town Council in June 2010 and were prepared to provide some funding in the region of £25,000 to the Town Council.
    The statement on Page 38 of my PDF document, as provided to the Real-Whitby web-site, reads thus:
    Catherine Price has also confirmed that Arriva’s Iain McInroy stated on 4th January 2011 that Arriva had made known to Whitby Town (Parish) Council, in June 2010, that Arriva was prepared to make £25,000 available.
    This remains my interpretation of the substance of your remarks. Other readers may arrive at a different interpretation.

    Referring now to my contemporaneous notes of the Meeting at the Normanby Room, Pannett Park, on Friday 28th January 2011, I wrote (and Jon Risdon has concurred with my opinion):
    At my request, Catherine Price confirmed that a meeting took place between NYCC and Arriva on Tuesday 4th January 2011, and that, to her knowledge, was the first time the sum of £25K was mentioned to NYCC.
    I cannot imagine that you take issue with my recollection, noted within little more than an hour, and confirmed by Jon Risdon. I am sure that were it the case that you did take issue with my recollection, then you would have mentioned that fact in your email of today’s date.

    If I (and Jon) have misinterpreted your remarks, I do beg your pardon.

    So let me see if I now correctly comprehend that which you feel I have hitherto failed to comprehend:

    When you stated, in your email of 3:36pm on 312st January 2011, that:
    During this meeting Iain McInroy mentioned that ARRIVA NE had had discussions with Whitby Town Council in June 2010 and were prepared to provide some funding in the region of £25,000 to the Town Council.
    are you now maintaining that it was your intention to suggest that when Arriva’s Iain McInroy, in company with Arriva’s Mark Ellis, told NYCC’s David Bowe and NYCC’s Richard Owens that when Arriva had met with Whitby Town (Parish) Council for “discussions” in June 2010, Arriva “were prepared to provide some funding in the region of £25,000 to the Town Council”, but that, in fact, the sum of £25,000 was entirely omitted from those “discussions”?

    I find that difficult to countenance.

    In my view, your statement

    “had discussions with Whitby Town Council in June 2010 and were prepared to provide some funding in the region of £25,000 to the Town Council”

    can only reasonably be interpreted to mean that Arriva’s preparedness to provide some funding in the region of £25,000 to the Town Council formed a part of the very substance of those discussions – for no other substance, of any kind, is mentioned by you.

    The context of my enquiry (based, as it was, on the story in the Whitby Gazette), made it abundantly clear (and was made known to you) that the key fact to be determined was the precise timing of when the offer was made (and, of course, by whom and to whom),

    If it was your intention to indicate that “discussions” did take place, but that the sum of £25,000 inexplicably formed no part of those discussions, then surely the onus was firmly upon you to make that distinction unequivocally clear. You did not.

    I was not present at that meeting; therefore, I have only your form of words on which to base an opinion. As stated above, other readers may, if they so wish, arrive at a different opinion – though, in my view, they would be extremely hard-pressed to do so.

    In my view, the interpretation I have placed on your remarks is entirely justified by your own form of words. Indeed, I would suggest that no other interpretation is plausible.

    I would maintain that I am free to express my own interpretation of your form of words, in words of my own choosing – the more so since I am unable to place any other interpretation upon them.

    In summation, such is my incredulity that there could be any other plausible interpretation that I am bound to enquire if your email of today arises at your own instigation, or if, in fact, it arises at the behest of another party.

    You may, if you wish, in the interests of transparency and accountability, share with me the identity of any party who has contacted you in this past week for the purposes of seeking to have your statement re-interpreted to better suit another agenda.

    Or, if you prefer (and I leave the choice to you), I can request now, under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, copies of information contained in any emails, faxes, letters, SMS messages, internal or external memoranda, contemporaneous notes of telephone conversations or in-person conversations, between the time of 00:01 on Friday 28th January 2011 and 23:59 today, Friday 4th February 2011.

    For absolute clarity, it is my intention to continue to investigate this matter until such time as I am satisfied that the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth has been laid before the public.

    Meanwhile, I would suggest, in the most amicable spirit, that if you wish to re-phrase the form of words, in order to clarify your intended meaning for the benefit of the public, then you are very free to do so, by commenting on the Real-Whitby web-site.

    Have a pleasant weekend.

    Yours, with very kind regards,


  326. Paul Chapman Humber Coastguard

    Hi Paul

    We have been watching your support on some of the forums and thought it might be the ideal time to make some direct contact with you and some of your colleagues. As you will be aware we, at Humber Coastguard, agree with your views that the modernisation plans are seriously flawed and are concerned for the safety implications to the mariner and coastal user within our area of operation.

    You may be interested to know that the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) are organising Public Consultation Meetings for stakeholders and the general public around the coast.

    They have scheduled a meeting in Bridlington at the Spa on Monday 21st February from 7pm to 9pm. This is the only public meeting which will be held between the River Humber and the Scottish Border and we appreciate that it is being organized at very short notice.

    We would like as many people as possible to attend this meeting question the proposals and to voice any concerns you may have so please share this information.

    We believe that taking away the local knowledge built up over years by the Coastguard Officers at Humber Coastguard could unnecessarily put lives at risk and strongly believe that Humber Coastguard should be retained as a 24 hour station. We are also asking that people support us by signing our on-line petition at

    Thank you for your support it is very much appreciated and if you know of any others who may like to make contact please pass on my email address.

    Paul Chapman
    Coastguard Watch Officer
    PCS Union Branch Secretary
    Humber Coastguard

    01262 672317
    07761 905308

  327. Well. It looks like Catherine Price is in no hurry to disclose who it was who encouraged her to ‘lean’ on me to withdraw HER words. This morning, I received an FOIA acknowledgement – that means they now have 20 working days (Saturdays and Sundays don’t count – so it is really 28 days) during which they don’t have to tell me a damn thing.

    At the end of the 28 days, they will almost certainly attempt to invoke one of the exemption clauses of the FOIA, so they STILL don’t have to tell me anything!

    And this is David Cameron’s ‘transparency and accountability’!

    Local Government seems to be full of something brown. I don’t know what it is, but it sticks to blankets and stinks to high heaven.

    —– Original Message —–
    From: DataManagement Officer
    Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:25 AM
    Subject: FOI request – N2637

    Dear Nigel

    Thank you for your request for information under the Freedom Of
    Information Act 2000, of which we acknowledge receipt.

    Your request has been passed to the appropriate officer to provide a
    response as soon as possible, and in any event within 20 working days,
    as required by the Act.

    Kind regards

    Miriam Townsend, for

    Data Management Officer

  328. Well. It looks like Catherine Price is in no hurry to disclose who it was who encouraged her to ‘lean’ on me to withdraw HER words. This morning, I received an FOIA acknowledgement – that means they now have 20 working days (Saturdays and Sundays don’t count – so it is really 28 days) during which they don’t have to tell me a damn thing.

    At the end of the 28 days, they will almost certainly attempt to invoke one of the exemption clauses of the FOIA, so they STILL don’t have to tell me anything!

    And this is David Cameron’s ‘transparency and accountability’!

    Local Government seems to be full of something brown. I don’t know what it is, but it sticks to blankets and stinks to high heaven.

    —– Original Message —–
    From: DataManagement Officer
    To: ‘Nigel’
    Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 9:25 AM
    Subject: FOI request – N2637

    Dear Nigel

    Thank you for your request for information under the Freedom Of
    Information Act 2000, of which we acknowledge receipt.

    Your request has been passed to the appropriate officer to provide a
    response as soon as possible, and in any event within 20 working days,
    as required by the Act.

    Kind regards

    Miriam Townsend, for

    Data Management Officer

  329. The Man In The White Suit

    Would be bang the same under labour if not worse, surprised it’s not maggie’s fault again.

  330. I hope this insight into the lack of openness and transparency that WTC offers the people of Whitby (and even certain members of their own Council) is remembered when it is time for us to elect again.

    Please note if anyone wants my vote at this time: I want a Parish Councillor that I may from time to time see in my Parish, who believes that I am entitled to ask questions about how my money (paid to WTC as part of my Council tax) has been/ is / will be spent and entitled to be given honest answers too .

  331. The Man In The White Suit

    That reply is precisely the reason you have yet to get a double figure attendance at one of your rally’s/meetings.

  332. Wow, Wow, Wow.

    Here we go again with the “blame the left” and “blame the right” crap!!!!

    When are you thick and ignorant morons going to WAKE ************!?!?!?

    It doesn’t matter if it was the “left” or the “right”. What matters is WE LET IT HAPPEN. We were the ones that voted these people into POWER over us. We were the ones who blindly went about our everyday lives without taking a blind bit of notice, and now that the country is in a whole heap of manure; what do you all start doing?

    Assigning blame. How very “growed up” of you.

    When are you ******* going to wake up and realise that these people at the so-called “top” don’t stand for the “left” or the “right”…. They all sit in the same pub and drink together for crying out lout. I know, I’ve been there and seen it with my own eyes. None of them are political opponents, they’re all COLLEAGUES… I’ve hear a number of them use that phrase when describing members of OTHER parties. Ask yourself why they use that phrase. Could it be because they’re all working together?

    They aren’t intersted in standing up for the rights of anyone, or the nation… Their interest is their pocket, their family’s pocket, their friends pockets.

    The “left/right” paradigm is false, and has been for a long time. Yet you all go around blaming Heath, Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron… Wake *********! These people get paid a lot of money to do what YOU tell them. Stop blaming others for your inactions.

    If you really want change, make it happen. If you really want stuff to get better get out there and make it better. Stop complaining and focusing on things you can’t change that are now in the PAST!!!! Start focusing on the present what you can do RIGHT NOW. Start working on the RIGHT NOW, and make the future better.

    Complaining, and moaning won’t get anyone very far. Start being positive about the future, and start realising that it’s us, all of us, that can make the future better by working together to get these scumbags at the top out. Once we’ve done that then we can worry about what comes next.

    Comment edited by Real Whitby Admin. Further use of foul language will result in the whole comment being removed.

  333. @ The Man in the White Suit….

    Instead of mincing on about “must be Maggies fault”, why not come up with a positive and helpful idea for a change.

    Do you get paid to be here or what?

    It’s not Maggies fault. It’s not Tony Blair’s fault. It’s OUR fault for letting it happen. When are you lot going to wake up and realise that we were the lazy, ignorant and blind arses that let it happen?

    It’s time to grow up and accept that it was our inactions that caused this. Our ancestors would have been in the streets demanding change, and here we are sitting idly by because we might miss Corrie, or X-Factor….

    I’m really curious to know what else they are hiding. But bitching about which former Prime Minister is to blame is not going to get anyone very far.

    Grow up, stop with this childish bullshizen of blaming things you can’t change in the past, and start making things better….

    The “left/right” paradigm is false and was cleverly created to divide anyone with any interest. It’s time you lot started to realise this. Do some research, get real, wake up.

    There again, I could just be ranting, and you lot could be more sane than me… that’s the usual response from brain dead morons. Not intelligent and reasonsed conversation… oh, wait no…. you’re going to blame Maggie again, or Tony, or his mate Gordon….

    What a waste of time and energy. It’s just a shame you lot don’t realise it.

  334. Just to clarify something. I used to be a fully paid up member of the TORY party.
    I paid a bit more than my basic subscription too….

    I can quite happily blame Maggie for things she did wrong whilst she was in power, but where does that get me? What does that achieve?

    I’ll give you a few minutes to work it out.

    You worked it out yet?

    That’s right, it achieves NOTHING, except a waste of air.

    The blame rests with us. We let it happen. We let it all happen. So, it’s down to all of us to sort it out.

    Those of us on the “left” and those of us on the “right” all dislike the fact that bankers are being paid millions in bonuses, so why aren’t we working together to sort it out? Why are we still bitching about what a former PM did thirty years ago????

    It’s time to wake up and realise that “they” want us all divided because it maintains the status quo, and their seat at the top of the TROUGH.

  335. Nigel,

    Working to end corruption in local government… I think that someone missed the fact that it’s usually blamed on the Tories for doing that. You switched sides or something?

    Or did you just realise that it’s about time we sorted it all out? I wonder if that’s why you and I started to work together….

    I wonder if our Muppet in the White Suite knows this?

    There again, maybe I’m still and this is all just a dream. Well, we can hope can’t we.

  336. ‘Would be bang the same under labour’ – totally agree, the three main parties are all in one anothers pockets, you just choose the lesser of the evil in their manefestos….or opt for the one of the lesser parties to hope to make a stand…

    What I will say on Mr Nigel Wards diary…it is very long winded and at times would take them 20 days to read it and make sense of it, let alone provide a response…I started to drift offe after the first couple of paragraphs and I am sure they will do the same. If you want prompt action, be prompt, exact and to the point keeping it Nick said..Corrie is much more exciting 😉 LOLOL I understand that you are doing what you think is good for Whitby, but you have to play the game with them or you get no-where and have wasted your time.

  337. Would agree with Angela, I lost heart early in the diary. It probably contains useful information but the format has me all confused. Short and to the point is what you want if you wish people to read these things.

  338. Yes it is a long collation of facts, and yes some are duplicated throughout the thread, and yes one does have to apply ones self to the reading of it.
    However making correspondence long and drawn out is one of the strategies of SBC.
    One reason is to p*ss you off so that you will go away.
    Another is if you persist, as Nigel has, it gives SBC the ammo to have you labelled as “vexatious”.
    Prompt action,as Angela suggests, just isnt in the SBC rule book.
    Fair play to Nigel for taking the time to show how inept SBC is.

  339. Sending long, drawn out, confusing letters/emails etc to SBC wont help either. They will have to read them all first and make sense of it, ‘vexatious’ you bet! Puts them off straightaway….concise, factual,to the point is the way forward…has Nigel received any outcomes from his FOI’s yet??No?? ~wonders why~
    You have to play the game..and win! They are legally oblidged to reply to FOI’s within 20 working days – legally – ‘vexatious’ is not a valid answer – if you are clever enough to comprise an FOI request they cannot get out of with a simple – non – then you win!!!
    I have real experience of these things..take my advice..up your game or you will be labelled vexatious. Whitby needs answers, If you have the time Nigel, go for it, good for you, but perhaps you need to change strategy slightly??

    • I’ve read a great deal of Nigel’s FOI’s… many of them are VERY short and VERY civil.

      Very few are ever acknowledged, even fewer are answered directly.

      I have also sent a few FOI’s in myself. Always succinct, and always polite…. NEVER are SBC’s public Servants open, honest or transparent with the information they should be.

      Angela, drop me a line… Glenn (the site admin) has my email address… let me show you how honest these people are. Coffee and a sticky bun, my treat, and I’ll happily show you how open and transparent these people are – regardless of whether you are short and sweet or long winded and thorough!!!!

      • I have to agree with you, the only time a response comes from SBC is when they are able to do so with ambiguity,
        My experience is if they cannot answer a “sticky question” without compromising themselves, then they prefer not to answer.

        One thing that I admire about Nigel is that he takes the fight to the enemy, and shows us the battlescars too,rather than commenting/moaning/complaining anonymously on websites

  340. The Man In The White Suit

    Deleted my comments as normal, others are allowed to name call and slag me off, but as soon as I do, you delete it, absolutely pathetic glenn

  341. Rather than responding with more abuse, leaving me no option but to delete it, why dont you contact me. My details are on the contact page. You can also press the report comment button on each comment. If reporting a comment, please state exactly what it is in the comment that you feel should not be displayed in the comment.

    I agree its not pleasant to have people calling you names and slagging you off on a website, and we aim to stamp it out. However, also keep in mind that you are the person who labelled a well respected member of our local community a village idiot and called for him to be sectioned under the mental health act. You will no doubt be familiar with the phrase about pots and black kettles.

    However In the better interests of the site I aim get on top of moderating comments, of which a fair percentage of yours are usually good. I will draft some rules and am looking at finding several people to help out with moderating the comments and the forum.

    Angela and a guy off the Whitby angling site have agreed to help me moderate this site, so if you don’t like the way something is being said please let us know and we will look into it. We will be fair in moderating comments and I will ensure that all site users are treated equally regardless of what they have said in the past.

  342. The Man In The White Suit

    Nice bit of editing Glenn ! I apologise , the red mist came over me again!

  343. ‘Coffee and a sticky bun, my treat’

    Im afraid in my line of work I am unable to accept any form of gift (however nice it may be) but if you do want any help, please messege me in the forum, I know how these people operate 😉 maybe we could get somewhere??

  344. The Man In The White Suit

    Angie, I think nick was not suggesting a real sticky bun!

  345. Lol, now were getting into territory that perhaps we shouldn’t visit

  346. ‘we shouldn’t visit’ spoilsport….;-)

  347. What you lot seem to have missed is one of two scenarios:

    1) Whitby Town Council are incompetent. They’ve known about this £25,000 for more than six months and not known what to do.


    2) Someone knew and decided to keep it quiet/secret. Which might explain why various councillors didn’t know about it.

    My greenbacks are on option two. Some one (or three?) knew.

  348. 1) AND 2)!! 🙂

  349. The conservative whip is there to force or even blackmail its spineless MPs to vote and say whatever its leadership tells it to say.
    Goodwill therefore will toe the line regardless of what his electorate says or thinks.

  350. The Man In The White Suit

    I’ve not even read this thread as it’s too long winded, can anyone give me a short version please?

  351. As a very regular visitor to Whitby I think there is enough choice to choose how much you want to pay for your cod & chips- it just might involve a longer walk.

    However, having had lots of dealings with the licensed trade I can’t imagine for a moment that the likes of Shambles & Raw only make 20p on each drink sold. It will almost certainly be more than that.
    I do like a drink when in Whitby and there are few places that can boast as many pubs with character but, the average price of a pint seems to be exceeding £3- which will keep me mainly going to the Sam Smiths pubs in the town and visiting others for ‘one at last orders’.
    Incidentally, I was out at Staithes the other day and with everywhere shut we went to Dalehouse where it was £1:80 for Fosters and £1:60 for John Smiths- my kind of prices.

  352. The Man In The White Suit

    Roll on wetherspoons, was in one on Saturday at 10 in the morning, had several pints and brekkie for less than £15, then went in the executive box and had free beer for 5 hours and a lovely meal.

    A great day , and hardly spent a penny

  353. There are places in Whitby that are a rip off, however visitors seem to frequent these places the most. Be adventurous wander the streets of Whitby, there are many eating establishments out there give them a try, im sure you will be more than pleasantly surprised at value for money.

  354. Forget Wetherspoons, roll on Enterprise Inns + Punch going under – at long last.

    I know Wetherspoons has it knockers but you can always get good beer at a good price. Food OK – MaccyD prices but more range + better quality.

    By the way, brave saying you went to the executive box (though if thats Leeds or ‘boro I pity you …) This is a website for the Socialist Non-Workers/PubclIc Sector Republic of Whitby.

  355. Oh and I always like Sam Smiths. Although I drink the The Chandos ( just up from Trafalgar Square) more than The Plough – trying to avoid too many old fellow old pupils from Eskdale.

  356. Weatherspoons are great for cheap and cheerful..but if you get one in Whitby..the rest of the pubs/cafes/little eateries..and therefore choice..will go out of the window as they cannot complete with a huge chain which would be a shame for Whitby.
    Weatherspoon’s have no character, charm, atmosphere and soon get very used/grubby/scruffy etc etc and very crowded (people shouting above one another in the evenings)…I would not welcome one in Whitby.

    • wetherspoon pub opens soon 28th I believe, having seen the angel hotel do you still hold the same view? some of the older ones granted are worn but have you visited any opened in the last year?

  357. Me neither Angela, Large chains such as weatherspoons, subway, macdonalds etc have no place in a beautiful town like Whitby and should be discouraged from the area. Whitby is popular because it is unspoilt, so why spoil it with tat.

    • I have to disagree with you there Glenn. I think a Weatherspoons would make certain places re-think their prices. Sure they can’t match Weatherspoons for price but they can surely lower their prices. £5+ for a pint and a half is just a complete rip-off.

      In all the years i’ve spent visiting Whitby (i go quite a lot due to a caravan there) I can honestly say that Whitby seems to have gone downhill in the last few years due to the stag and hen parties that seem to have invaded from the north. Not a pretty sight. And Whitby is a place I love.

  358. Nope disagree. Weatherspoon’s fit in unnoticed in towns – they don;t have big golden arches, or horrible signs (Subway). I’ve found weatherspoon’s to be much cleaner and in better maintenance than a lot pubs. Face it, the BigA has always been a c**p-hole. I remember the whole Laughton’s opening – I think that would be 1988ish. Horrible place.

    I think a lot of little eateries and cafes are already well on the way to going out of business. They are just in the standard Whitby business cycle: economy grows – people sell-up and buy a little cafe/b+b/pub in whitby, paying way too much for it. Economy carries on growing – people trade. Economy tanks – visitos stop spending, little business etc go bust beacuse they are carrying too much debt or have not managed to get on top of the capital costs before the slowdown.

    I vaguely remember the fall out furing the early 80s (81ish), I have a very memory of the last down cycle – 92ish. The UK has had, in short the equivalent to 2 booms/up cycles, I expect it to have the equivalent to 2 busts.

  359. Check this out…ever been to MM? You cant miss this:

    Its the one with all the chavs puffing their heads off outside on the street…it is their flagship multi million pound pub…with massive signs outside saying Wetherspoons!!…that was 2007…it got tatty, grubby etc within a year..not only does the wind turbine attract the lightening….now it has ~ ahem ~ burned down!!

    In terms of ground space, it almost rivals the cathedral-esque size church!!

  360. I must add- while I like a reasonably priced pint I can’t see a Wetherspoons doing much for a town like Whitby (though the towns bar staff and management may be able to get better wages and hours there).
    I think the point I was getting at is that pricewise the gap between the ‘top end’ places and what you’d maybe class as ‘your average pub’ isn’t that much at all.
    And while your daytrippers are happy to pay whatever (captive audience??) – ‘frequent visitors’ (like myself) are more inclined to try and make their Whitby money stretch out a bit.

  361. Good work, Glenn! I was beginning to think no-one gave a damn!

  362. Time can be a problem for me Nigel. But usually I do get there in the end. Hopefully with Angela, Alan and Lee now on the Real Whitby Team we can get more articles out on a frequent basis.

  363. Marion Sythe-Jones

    Wow, thats some lean on the lighthouse. Has the underpinning caused that.

  364. Try this one nigel. Tags are a great way for grouping similar articles

  365. I’m always amazed at the sheer wear on the stone on the lighthouse whenever I get into Whitby. Surely SBC would rather see it looking it’s best rather than a lump of dangerous stone after it has fallen into the harbour? Makes you wonder…I know budget cuts are all abound at the moment but to let something so majestic go to rack and ruin is almost unbelievable.

  366. Can this really be true?

    What are Whitby Town Council being paid for?

    Shouldn’t they be checking stuff like this, and bringing it to the attention of those responsible? What are they charging £230,000 a year for?

    It seems to me that SBC are over worked, and possibly have overlooked this one. I’m not defending, just playing ‘devils advocate’.

    But questions need to be asked as to why Whitby Town Council haven’t raised this issue before… Nigel, have you raised this with them?

  367. I raised it with Councillor Ian Havelock; he will bring it up in Council at the March Meeting. I doubt anyone else there knows anything about it. Most of them seldom set foot in the town at all. Since this story was posted, I have been receiving reports that the West Pier Lighthouse is in a bad way, too, leaking badly so that the rain has ruined the electrics and the woodwork. Apparently, the guy who leases it is not even allowed to give it a lick of paint. There is a fine line between negligence and vandalism . . .

  368. Neglegence and vanadlism?

    If what you say is true, don’t you mean “wanton destruction”????

  369. Just another example of SBC allowing Whitby to go to wrack and ruin…perhaps they are hoping the town will fall into the harbour if they leave things undone for long enough, then they will be able to spend ALL the money on Scarborough.

  370. ‘Wow, thats some lean on the lighthouse. Has the underpinning caused that.’ I think the angle of the photograph is deceptive….?

  371. Marion Sythe-Jones

    Looks like its about to topple. Are the council planning work to rectify the problem they have caused.

  372. Just been copied in to a very positive step. It probably won’t achieve much – unless a good few concerned residents add their weight to the cause:

    From: John Parker
    Date: 18 February 2011 11:44:52 CEST
    Subject: Whitby East Pier Lighthouse

    Dear Mr Goodwill

    I am taking the liberty of writing to you on the subject of our Lighthouse. I say “our lighthouse”, because as a Whitby man born and brought up on the East side, like many others of my generation, I look upon the East Pier and Lighthouse as part of my cultural inheritance. It is in deplorable state and looks as if it may fall over before I do (I’m 71).

    Am I correct in thinking that SBC is responsible for its upkeep? If so could you give them a shake and tell them to get on with the urgently needed restoration.

    Yours sincerely

    John Parker

  373. The Man In The White Suit

    There is a right and wrong way of talking to people, writing to people, communicating with people. Once you realise how to do it the right way, you have hit the jackpot.

  374. The Man In The White Suit

    Come on Glenn! You know me better than that! If you do your kids homework every night, your kids ain’t going to learn a thing!

    • A guy I know tells me quite a bit about these people who are paid to come to sites like this to troll, and never offer anything useful.

      You seem to fit the bill.

      But do you get paid to be here, or is it for the good of your health? I have never seen you offer something positive. Can’t say I understand why, save to say you’re a troll, and not a very good one.

    • I cant do my kids homework, theyre far mor eintelligent than me already.

      • The Man In The White Suit

        Private education.

        • Not necessarily, you show your ignorance on this subject….if you had kids you would see the amount of homework they get on a baffling range of subjects! Ive been to Uni…some of the stuff my step-daughter got at 11 was amazing..she is 15 now and we do our best, but the way they learn (on the same subject) is completely different to when even I was at school!

  375. The Empire Strikes Back!

    John Riby, Scarborough Borough Council’s head of technical services confirmed: “The Whitby lighthouse has, for many years, leaned slightly and this has become part of the building’s character.

    “So far as we are aware this is no indication of a structural problem.”

    But do bear in mind that this is the man who is leaving at the end of March – so it inlikely to fall over on his watch (if it does, we can always hope that he is wearing it at the time).

    More seriously, let us wish him luck in his new career as a ‘consultant’ – doing much the same thing as at present, but not susceptible to the FOIA.

    • Priceless – they’ve got the WRONG LIGHTHOUSE!!!

      Council allays fears on ‘leaning lighthouse’

      Published on Fri Jul 31 17:54:28 BST 2009

      SCARBOROUGH Council has moved to allay fears that Whitby may have its own leaning tower of Pisa in the form of its lighthouse.
      A handful of Whitby Gazette readers have contacted the paper recently to say the lighthouse may be leaning slightly.

      The lighthouse on the West Pier was built in 1835 and is the taller of the two lighthouses in Whitby at 25.3m.

      In summer it is open to the public.

      John Riby, Scarborough Borough Council’s Head of Technical services confirmed: “The Whitby lighthouse has, for many years, leaned slightly and this has become part of the building’s character.

      “So far as we are aware this is no indication of a structural problem.”

  376. I agree with TMITWS in most respects as to there is a right way and a wrong way to deal with authorities/MP’s etc etc and If you know how to talk to them you get somewhere, if you dont you are labelled ‘vexatious’ as I have said before.

    I would like to know the outcome of Mr Parkers letter.

  377. In my opinion and from past experience of dealing with heads of council services, most haven’t got a clue what is going on at ground level and live each day by letters and Email only. God forbid the day they have to don a hardhat and go and physically look at or investigate an issue.

    I deal with councils most weeks in my trade and some of the tosh that is spouted each week makes you wonder if they should be in an asylum rather than heading up their respective councils as they really are so out of touch with everyday issues.

  378. The Man In The White Suit

    Not sure this is the right place to put this glenn, but thought we could have a discussion about all the pubs that are in trouble, the bottom house has been sold and will no longer be a pub, am I allowed to mention rigours about other pubs Glenn ? I don’t want to get the site in trouble!

  379. The Man In The White Suit

    Rumours not “rigours”

  380. I saw in the London Gazette that the licensee couple at The Little A had gone under the other week.

    There are a number of challenges for pubs at the moment, top mos being the gross stupidity of he PubCos, who are trying to push their own incomptence down onto the licencees i nthe form of high rates, high beer prices, etc.

    Pubs are facing a number of changes – people drinking at home more (mainly as a result of PubCO price gouging), stricter drink driving laws – you local has to be your local, and the normal range of cyclical factors – recession, dumb people paying too much for pubs in the up tick, etc.

    If I was to go out on a limb I would guess the following would be in trouble (I have no inside knowledge):

    The Jolly Sailor,
    The Granby (I tink) – The pub opposite Boothams on skinner street.
    Rosie Ogradys/george/cinema arms. – if wetherspoons turn up.
    The Golden fleece.
    I guess most villages will go down to one pub. Normally a freehold where the capital cost has been sunk a long time ago.
    Any PubCo pub.
    Station Inn or whatever its called – next to the toilets.

    This is a very iomplete list. Just places that I have been in recentlyish and that spring to mind.

    Some I see surviving:

    The Plough will survive (Sam Smiths).
    The ones along church street stand a chance of surving although I can see one going.
    BigA – if wetherspoons move in.

  381. I think one of the problems here is that, the lighthouse is an integral part of the harbour and the people running the department that is charged with its maintenance are far removed from the harbour.
    The harbour is now run by men in suits sat in an office rather than the “hands on” maritime based people who ran the port in the past.
    The role of the harbourmaster has been downgraded to that of, basicaly, a staff supervisor
    Whenever there is a problem the man in the suit at SBC takes over the issue and bases the solution in a different perspective, and usualy impractical, manner of office procedure
    In the issue of the lighthouse not only is the man in the suit leaving, as a commenter wrote earlier but, it seems, he is taking the job with him, when he recently told the harbour users group.
    JR explained that the council are currently rearranging its structure and as from 31 March, Technical Services will no longer exist. The harbours will therefore come under the Head of Tourism & Culture under the control of Brian Bennett.
    So the harbours at both Whitby and Scarborough are to be run by the Department of Donkey rides, Candy floss and Deck chairs.
    Looking on the bright side, I suppose the ligthouse could be converted to a helter skelter, if it doesnt fall down first.

  382. I hope this does not signal the return of the phantom Goth sniper:

    Same part of town.

    Anyone with information is asked to contact PC 1764 Diggle on 0845 60 60 247

  383. There comes a time when these people stop looking ‘INCOMPETENT’ and start looking ‘MALICIOUS’ with the way they behave.

  384. The Man In The White Suit

    If they catch em, I think we should send em on a holiday and give them a hug,

  385. Last night I attended the consultation on the coastguard cuts at Bridlington Spa.I can see reasons why some reorganisation is necessary.
    However I cannot see the reason for choosing what they have done.We will have two operational centres based on Aberdeen and Southampton.There will then be 5 daytime only sub stations including the Humber plus one sub station,Dover,remaining 24 hours.The London station will remain as is.
    My question is why will the South have three 24 hour facilities when the east coast (and the west for that matter) are left for part of the day without regional cover with appropriate local knowledge.
    The answer given was that all local knowledge can be stored on a data base and the south needs better coverage because of ‘intelligence’ issues.
    They have chosen some of the most expensive areas in the country to site their full time operations for both staff cost of living expenses and property values.Surely with everything that is about to happen off the east coast – wind farms etc etc – the Humber sub station above all needs 24 hour coverage.
    Would our MP accept that ?

    • Hi Mike,

      Thanks for attended the meeting and giving us your thoughts. I feel we rather let the coastguard down. Myself and Paul had intended to go down to Bridlington. We forgot all about it until yesterday evening, by which time it was too late to make it.

  386. Spot on, Mike:

    “Surely with everything that is about to happen off the east coast – wind farms etc etc – the Humber sub station above all needs 24 hour coverage.”


  387. ‘The London station will remain as is’ now there is a surprise…….

    ‘The answer given was that all local knowledge can be stored on a data base’ ok so surely then the souths local knowledge can be stored on a database too then!

    ‘and the south needs better coverage because of ‘intelligence’ issues’ that figures….

  388. At last, the Whitby Gazette and the Whitby Town (Parish) Council have woken up to the situation:

    Not before time.

  389. Coroner’s officer Sandra Pennock, on behalf of Michael Oakley, HM Coroner for the Eastern Sector of North Yorkshire, has confirmed to me today that the inquest into the death by drowning of 17-year-old James Samuel Willis of Stockton, at Whitby North Yorkshire, on Wednesday 25th August 2010, will take place at Northallerton on 4th, 5th and 6th May 2011. A report into the tragedy has been published by the Marine Accident Investigation Board.

  390. Great work, Tom! Great work, Glenn!

    Now people can see what we have been banging on about. Left to rot.

    Now let’s see some pictures of Scarborough Harbour. Allan Roberts can tell you some astonishing stories – and they are all true.

    Cllr Peter Popple has got a job on his hands. He better get it right or Whitby is up a certain well-known creek, and I don’t mean the Esk!

  391. I hadnt realised things were as bad as this. Thnkyou for taking the time to get the photos and writing this article which has brought things to the attention of those who follow this website.

  392. Its about time Whitby had its own council with real control of the towns expenditure. The local elections are not far away now, so maybe its time to send the conservatives a strong message that we are not happy with their lack of investment in Whitby.

  393. As a long term visitor to Whitby through the summer, I am astounded to see the state of the town these days. Whitby has seen a mass increase in tourism over the last 20 years and the council must have seen a large rise in the public coffers, so where has all the money been spent ?

  394. Great insight into the ethos of SBC and how they value Whitby, its not a great deal different in Scarborough it has to be said. The only investment SBC make nowadays is in car parks or revenue collection.
    Scarborough Harbour fairs no better than Whitby, rotting or broken infrastructure that takes years to remedy, if at all. Little to no consideration paid to stakeholders who actually care what impression the state of the place gives to tourists, that in addition to what facilities that although paid for in levies actually give any value for money. This includes both staff and elected members it has to be said when it comes to the VFM issue.
    That said when our new brush under the guise of Head of Tourism takes over, will we fair any better. Only time will tell on that one, meanwhile sceptism prevails and I hope that I’m proven wrong.
    Keep up the good work and its a bloody shame Scarborough doesnt have an equivalent website. (Food for thought anyone?)

  395. worrying pictures there lads
    I think its an outrage that our historic structures are left to rot and in the end quite literally fall into the sea from neglect
    I like many recall using the east pier when it was accessible….always a welcome break from the overcrowded west, I think the two piers show the two sides of whitby, the west showing the modern and tourism heavy side of the town and the east looking across the scaur to saltwick showing the natural and untamed side
    such a shame that they (the council) simply refuse to maintain such structures as the pier and the lighthous….as has been said in this thread before, where does all the massive revenue from the carparking (and car ticketing) go?

  396. A recent email passed to Real Whitby regarding the Swing Bridge Oil Leak.

    I refer to your e-mail regarding oil leakage at Whitby Swing Bridge.
    I am advised that following the Council’s contractors, ‘Fairfields’ ,visit to site a short while ago they reported a leak on a hydraulic pipe in the West Side HPU and recommended that all the pipes be renewed ,which we did a week or so ago.The leaking pipe did, unfortunately ,result in an amount,albeit small ,of hydraulic oil drip from the bridge engine room.
    Currently there is a small problem with a pipework manifold which is weeping slightly in the West Side HPU for which instruction have been issued to be renewed at the earliest opportunity ,although this leak is captured in the drip trays which the Bridge men have been asked to mop out with sorbent until the manifold is renewed.None of the above is prejudicial to the operation of the bridge.Hope this clarifies the situation.

    John Riby
    Head of Technical Services
    Scarborough Borough Council
    t: 01723 232423

  397. It seems difficult to believe that this dilapidation is the result of passive neglect, but if it is wilful, where’s the benefit? Is it purely that capital expenditure has been given higher priority in our rapacious consumer society, over maintenance which could ensure, improve, and maybe even maximise honourable & justifiable revenue?

  398. The Man In The White Suite

    Good work Glenn , but let’s not get carried away , Scarboro is an absolute **** hole, I would rather live in libya.

    It would be great if Whitby was not controlled by SBC, but do you really think it would be that different, those who think it would be a bed of roses are living in cloud cuckoo land.

  399. Lets not get sidetracked into the old Scarborough Versus Whitby campaign. It doesnt matter who is in charge of the council, so long as the council invest money into the town, which evidently they have not. I would like to say a big thankyou to Real Whitby for bringing us stories like this. For a long time now, Scarborough Borough Council aided by the Whitby Gazette have portrayed anyone who speaks out against the council as the local idiot, or worse still a trouble causer. Stories like these show what people like Peter Budd are campaigning for. The man is not half as daft as the council and the scourge of local news, the gazette, would have you believe. Keep up the good fight boys and long live Real Whitby.

  400. Marion Sythe-Jones

    Has anyone spoken to Whitby Town Council about these matters ? Whitby Town Council should be taking copies of these pictures to SBC and asking for the problems to be put right.

    • Oh, people have asked alright.

      You should come to some of the Council meetings. They are laughable in the extreme. Having been once or twice myself, I was disgusted at the lack of any sort of competence amongst many there, who call themselves ‘Councillor’.

      I have asked why no one does anything. I never get a straight answer, or I get “we’re on to it”, sort of answer, which is a non-answer.

      It is simply disgusting.

  401. The headcount on any given day of the year of visitors to the town seems to increase every year, this means increased wear and tear to everything in the town. Why does this not equate into investment in keeping the towns structures safe and sound?

    With regards to the comment above asking if anyone has spoken to Whitby Town Council, tonights meeting at Pannett Park (Art gallery) has agenda item 12. MOTION – THE EAST AND WEST PIER STONE LIGHTHOUSES – To consider current state of repair and their future conservation.

    Meeting starts 6.45pm and is open to the public

  402. I make the point again.

    Whitby Town (Parish) Council is just that – a PARISH Council. It is constrained by the Local Government Act 1972 to having powers ONLY OF PERSUASION with Scarborough Borough Council – no ‘powers’ at all.

    As Peter and I have been pointing out for years, the only prospect of Whitby escaping its present predicament is as part of a democratically elected North Yorkshire Moors National Park Authority – an authority which is at present appointed, not elected.

    It can be done – under the auspices of 3 Acts of Parliament. Learn more here:

    In the meantime, SBC will continue to maximise revenue from Whitby whilst minimising investment. It stops when the people say it stops. Start shouting!

  403. my family originate from whitby since 1126 as a young person in the 60’s/70’s many a summer was spent in my family’s home town.everything in those day’s was smart ,painted ,repaired, and maintained.untill the great reaper arrived sbc.i did not go to whitby for 18 years (2009)i was in disbelief.the state of the harbour,both peirs,lighthouses,harbour wall between the fish and tate hill peir (with water poring through it) the total decay of the bridge dolphins, the inscure railings on the 199 steps(stairs). i despair as i know the people of the town do.i ask all whitby people to support the endevours and hard work of everyone that is fighting the criminal neglect of whitby by scumbrough brough council.

  404. Just heard the First In Last Out is to close and the landlord of Little Angel is in Whitby Gazette on his recent bankruptcy.

  405. It’s true that SBC gain nothing from allowing Whitby to deteriorate in this way. They know that they reap a huge income from Whitby and one would expect that they would attempt to keep the place in as good repair as possible. It was Whitby which was voted Best Seaside Resort in 2006 but I have to say that Scarborough appears to be in a much better state of repair, so it ‘s obvious that they are spending the bulk of the money there. SBC must surely be having a twinge of concern at the thought of losing Whitby to The North Yorkshire Moors National Park Authority…perhaps that might make them perk their ideas up. Personally, I think they’ve had their chance and Whitby needs to be free of them for good.

  406. Poor s.ds at the Little A. The big change is not VAT, etc but the lunacy of the Pubcos overleveraged business model and then dumping the costs on the licensees. If any is interested int taking on a pub then I can offer free advise – Don’t – at least not not until Enterpise Inns + Punch go under.

  407. Latest:

    —– Original Message —–
    From: REDFERN, Neil
    To: ‘Nigel’
    Sent: Monday, February 28, 2011 6:07 PM
    Subject: RE: WHITBY East Pier Lighthouse – new FOIA


    We agree it is the responsibility of SBC to maintain the Lighthouse and we have picked this up with them.

    Regarding enforcement action, this power does not lie with English Heritage but with the Secretary of State.

    In our experience the Secretary of State is only likely to exercise this power in the most significant of cases.


    Neil Redfern

    Neil I. Redfern, Team Leader, North Yorkshire and the City of York

    Last night (Tues. 1st March ’11) Whitby Town (Parish) Council resolved to write to the Secretary of State, and to ask SBC and EH to attend a site meeting.

    That should ensure another 3-6 months goes by without further progress!

  408. The councillors should be ashamed at the state of a beautifull histoic fishing port that is being washed into the sea with every storm and high tide.
    What would Captain Cook think if he came sailing into his home port and saw all that rotting timber and collapsing harbour walls.
    Where is all this lottery money going to and how come this bunch of millionaires running the country can send millions of foreign aid to other countries who are building bombs and have a space research program.
    Some body needs a good kick up the backside all this unemployment builders ect
    cant get a job its shamefull.

  409. The Man In The White Suit

    I will ask the question again, where are all of you at the local meetings? Do you really think you will get anywhere by just posting on here or writing to your mp ( he will use your letter to light his Cuban cigar)

  410. To the man in the White Suit. I havnt attended a meeting because i live in Stockton on tees.
    I know that writeing to your ministers and Mps does work because i have proof that they do listen.
    I am new to this computor game and what i have found is that a lot will sit on the fence and let others do the work.
    Leave me the address of the councillor at Scarbrough who you have written to and i will also send a letter. Yours sincerly P.B

  411. Yes, TMITWS, lets have the address for the letter(s) you have sent, we can send them our letters as well on the same subject….power in numbers- the more people highlighting a problem the better….

    • They told me if I wasn’t on the telly I could get lost!

      • Sounds about par for the course. Why should they make their own enquiries when they have the BBC to do it for them?

        Life is about en-suite showers and dirty great limousines when you go up the ranks of NYP. After all they socialise with dodgy people and they wouldn’t want to stigmatise their own circle.

  412. Elroy! Surely it’s Elroy Genitals! I heard he was after a tricorn and a frock-coat but I never imagined he would go to such lengths! I trust a penchant for wearing fancy dress is not likely to bring anyone or anything into disrepute?

    ‘Purdah’ starts on 21st March and candidates have to watch their steps when it comes to annihilating the opposition by character assassination.

  413. Brilliant! An admirable continuation of an honourable tradition, pictorial lampoon.

  414. Are we allowed to say the G word on here??? Or is that his name..oh dear!

    Have to say im not one for Satirical takes a certain mind to find them funny I suppose……I bet Nigel can do cryptic crosswords too??

  415. Two words:

    Frickin’ marvelous!

  416. To anybody who wants to write to Scarbrough Council heres the address.

    Scarborough Borough Council,
    Town Hall St Nicholas Street,
    North Yorkshire,
    YO11 2HG.
    Tel 01723/232323.

    Dont forget a stamped addressed envelope for your reply.
    They need to be seen to be doing something or they will be out of a job.


    Yorkshire Water commissioned an independent engineer’s report on the cause of the collapse – and (whaddya know?) SBC will not allow it to be published.
    —– Original Message —–
    From: “Ian Anderson”
    To: “Richard Ineson”;;;
    Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 1:45 PM
    Subject: Re: Response from Yorkshire Water

    Dear Mr Ineson

    Thank you for your email.

    I assume that this photograph is the basis for the misinformation that is in current circulation and that you re-iterate. I can confirm that you are incorrect in your supposition that the dredger in the photograph was undertaking dredging and your assumption that it was acting under the
    instruction of Scarborough Borough Council.


    Legal and Support Services, Scarborough Borough Council
    >>> “Nigel” 02/02/11 2:05 pm >>>

    Mr Ian ANDERSON – Head of Legal & Support Services – SBC


    Councillor Mike Ward has confirmed to me that SBC Officers are now in receipt of the Yorkshire Water Internal Report on the collapse of the Harbour Wall to the rear of Sandgate.

    I overheard a conversation, at last night’s WTC Meeting, between Cllr Ward and John Riby, in which Mr Riby confirmed that information, adding that it was unlikely to be released into the public domain in virtue of the ‘commercial confidentiality’ contained therein.

    As a matter of immediate and profound public interest, I am now requesting sight of this document under the FOIA.

    Should it truly be necessary, you may redact such names and contact details as is necessary to preserve that ‘commercial confidentiality’ – but I will expect full disclosure at your earliest convenience. Today would be as good a time as any.

    Acknowledgement and FOIA designated number today, too, if you please.

    I hope you are well. I wish you would turn your attention to the myriad outstanding issues that I have raised repeatedly, though in vain.

    Kind regards,

    From: FOI FOI
    To: ‘Nigel’
    Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 8:25 AM
    Subject: FOIA1392 – HARBOUR WALL YW REPORT – 02.02.11


    Freedom of Information Act 2000 – FOIA1392

    Thank you for your email requesting information. Your request was received on 2 February 2011 and we are dealing with it under the terms of the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

    In some circumstances a fee may be payable and if that is the case, we will let you know. A fees notice will be issued to you, and you will be required to pay before we will proceed to deal with your request.

    If you have any queries about this letter, please contact me. Please remember to quote the reference number above in any future

    Yours sincerely


    Ian Anderson
    Head of Legal and Support Services, Scarborough Borough Council


  418. Eric Pickles wrote to all Councils in January with the following:

    “If councillors and council officers are to be held to account, the press and public need access to the information that will enable them to do it.

    “If town halls want to reduce the amount they spend on responding to freedom of information requests they should consider making the information freely available in the first place.

    “The simple act of throwing open the books, rather than waiting for them to be prised apart by the force of an FoI, might even save a few pounds in the process.

    “Greater local accountability is essential to accompany the greater powers and freedoms that the new government is giving to local government.”

    I wonder how soon it will be afore Scarborough Borough Council start to adhere to this.

  419. A dredger not dredging..what was it doing there for all that time?
    Doesnt a certain webcam for that area show it dredging? May be worth checking its archives…..

    • It was dredging alright. The dredger’s own log confirms that. And the inside word is that they over-dredged the base of the piles supporting the harbour wall, along the back of Sandgate – and that that is what caused the collapse and concomitant damage to properties along both sides of Sandgate.

      Dredging is conducted under strict license. Only the main channel. The dredging close to the harbour wall was apparently to create a new deep berth pontoon (for yachts). SBC are keen on milking revenue from Whitby – less so on investment and maintenance.

      If this is all nonsense, why do they refuse to show us the engineer’s report?

    • Hi Angela, There is a lot of pictures in circulation showing the dredger dredging. I have some that I will post at some point soon.

  420. As well as the statement Frank Chalmers refers to, Eric Pickles made this more comprehensive statement dated March 1st 2011.
    Will it ever happen?

    A new era of local transparency
    Eric Pickles, Tuesday, March 1st, 2011 .
    Transparency and openess must underpin every decision your council makes for you.
    Fifty years ago this month, Margaret Thatcher’s maiden speech championed a Private Members’ Bill which would ultimately make councils open up their meetings to the press and public. As she argued at the time, ‘The public has the right… to know what its elected representatives are doing’. Indeed, local people should be able to hold politicians and public bodies to account over how their council tax is being spent, and decisions made on their behalf.
    We are ushering in a new era of transparency, where every aspect of council business is open to democratic scrutiny and an army of armchair auditors can shine a spotlight on waste and unnecessary cost to help protect frontline services.
    For too long, Labour let councils spend your hard-earned cash without proper local accountability. For too long, Labour took local taxpayers for a ride.
    You wouldn’t spend your money without knowing what you were buying – so why let the Government?
    With greater power for local councils must come greater local accountability. We are committed to increasing transparency across Whitehall and local authorities in order to make data more readily available to you, the citizen, and allow you to hold service providers to account. I recently called on every council in the country to publish all of their spending data over £500 online – and only Labour-run Nottingham are yet to deliver, with their Labour leader arrogantly saying ‘we have much better things to be doing’. What have they got to hide?
    Not only will transparency allow you to see where your money goes and what it delivers, throwing open the council books will also unlock the door to new businesses and encourage greater innovation and entrepreneurship.
    When the new Government is giving unprecedented power and freedom to councils, it’s more important than ever that local residents can keep tabs on what their town hall is up to. We’re bringing the full glare of the public’s eye onto spending. I invite you to scrutinise where your money goes and help us make sure it is spent on the right priorities. It’s time to put the council receipts at your fingertips.

  421. This one must be a reference to the infamous High Point Rendel scandal:

    YORKSHIRE POST 07/01/2006

    Headline: ‘Gung-ho’ and wasteful: the shame of council chiefs

    “Damning verdict of report they banned”

    A SCANDAL-HIT Yorkshire council was so desperate to cut corners that it let a “gung ho” town hall chief give a company a “blank cheque” to waste public money, a report has revealed.

    The damning picture of how Scarborough Council flouted the law and its own constitution emerged when a hitherto confidential report was finally made public yesterday.

    Scarborough Council’s chief engineer John Riby gave geotechnical consultants High Point Rendel the job of supervising construction of the town’s sea defences. There was no formal contract, even though the company had run up £2m bills on previous schemes originally costed at £300,000.

    Scarborough’s former head of legal services Philip Newell told a subsequent inquiry he tried to raise concerns about how the authority did business – but was “met with groans” from senior colleagues who accused him of being pedantic.

    Scarborough Council bowed to pressure and released the report by local government troubleshooter Richard Penn yesterday, after the Yorkshire Post revealed that former chief executive John Trebble had only agreed to retire early after his bosses agreed to hush up the findings.

    Mr Penn, former chief executive of Bradford Council, was called in to advise Scarborough Council’s disciplinary committee in response to the political fall-out from a District Auditor’s report on the contracts fiasco.

    The auditor had found more than a year ago that Scarborough had illegally awarded the contract to High Point Rendel and then concocted a bogus “Best Value” report to make it look as if it had been properly tendered.

    Mr Penn said both the auditor’s and his own investigation pointed towards “a sorry tale of errors, complacency and lack of corporateness on the part of key individuals, and of the organisational environment and culture which allowed this to happen”.

    He added: “The result has been a period of embarrassment and even public ridicule for the council at large and for individual elected members. None of the key senior council officers involved at that time in this episode come out of it well.

    “The fact that there is no evidence of financial loss or fraudulent activity, while welcome, does not detract from the serious nature of the failure to ensure effective governance of the council’s business.”

    Mr Newell and the corporate services director Trevor Teasdale retired early. Technical services director Derek Rowell became a strategic director of environment services for the Isle of Wight Council. Mr Riby was given a final written warning and is no longer involved in procurement.

    The Penn report reveals council lawyers complained to Mr Rowell by e-mail in August 2002 that Mr Riby’s section was in serious breach of the rules by failing to consult with legal colleagues about contracts – which Mr Newell called a “silo mentality”. Mr Teasdale wrote on a copy of the e-mail: “Excellent e-mail. Please keep me informed. I will take up as necessary.”

    But Mr Penn said it was clear no action was taken by anyone to review the tendering process and no report to members was issued.

    Mr Newell told Mr Penn he regularly raised the issue at the meetings of senior officers and was normally “met with groans” from his colleagues and sometimes accused of being “pedantic” in his insistence that constitutional requirements were complied with.

    He claimed Mr Trebble’s response was always: “We have to move on. Please discuss this with the director of technical services.” By the time lawyers were involved, High Point Rendel’s fees had risen from £1.2m to £2.4m and the £28m construction bill for the defences had also doubled.

    “In effect they have been handed a blank cheque to charge the council every element of cost, however inefficient, duplicated, wasteful, or unproductive, ” the lawyers informed Mr Penn.

    Mr Penn also found High Point Rendel had been given six jobs in the past which were supposed to cost no more than £50,000 each. In the end the total bill for their work was £2m and there was no contract documents for any of it, he said.

    Mr Trebble told Mr Penn that Mr Riby had a “gung ho” attitude but only wanted to get the job done. Mr Penn said the chief executive’s colleagues found it “inconceivable” that such a hands-on chief as Mr Trebble would not have checked the contract arrangements for such a flagship project.

    Mr Penn added: “Either that, or he did know but allowed corners to be cut to ensure the successful delivery of the project in time.”

    He said the case underlined the dangers of a small council trying to do too much: “Corners get cut, individual officers are given their head, and the normal checks and balances are not always firmly in place. ”

    ” In effect they have been handed a blank cheque to charge the council every element of cost, however inefficient.”

  422. We want the truth! We want the truth! We want the truth! We want the truth!

    SBC Are you listening?

    • Not much chance of that Frank. SBC only listen to themselves.

      I have been trying, without success, to engage with SBC on a harbour issue for the past five months. I have been met with a continual barrage of ambiguity, misleading statements, and dismissiveness from the officers of SBC.
      The SBC officers replies, in my opinion, have been evasive, ambigious, and misleading.
      The SBC officers have made very attempt to silence me, even to the extent of effectively “blackballing” me from harbour users meetings.

      I have at all times copied into the correspondence my local ward Councillor Peter Popple.
      Cllr Popple is also the Cabinet member with responsibilties for Harbours at SBC, so this issue is within his remit.
      Despite observing the apparent difficulty I am experiencing with SBC officers Cllr Popple has remained silent, offering absolutely no help, intervention, or offer of arbitration.

      Go to the link below and make your own opinion.'Golden_Ball'_Diary_of_Non-Transparency.pdf

  423. I think these cartoons help to understand many things, even better than words. And a good laugh is such a bonus, especially about these not-very-funny-actually matters!

  424. The Man In The White Suit

    Hi, not really sure where i should be putting this , but would just like to praise Robert Goodwill.

    Here is the story,

    The wife had put in a claim through the DWP , but they had lost her letter, and because of this , she had missed the date when the letter had to be in, even thou she had proof of sending the letter, the DWP would have none of it,

    So we wrote to Robert,

    We got a swift reply , and Robert was on the case, he politely explained to the DWP that it was their system that was at fault and no my wife,

    Job done.

    Thank you Sir Robert Goodwill

  425. Whats DWP? oh white suited one!

  426. “Let me tell you this, if you tax the ballacks off the bankers or cap their bonus’s too much you will drive the abroad.”

    So you’ve swallowed that nonsense too, have you? A threat spun by who? The banks. Why? To ransom government into maintaining the status quo.
    The banks need reminding that they would no longer be in business today were it not for the security of UK Plc’s balance sheet. The idea that megabanks would move to other countries is simply ludicrous. They need a large public balance sheet to back them up, otherwise they will not be able to borrow anywhere near their current amounts at such low rates. There is no way that a JP Morgan Chase or a Barclays could consider moving to places like Grand Cayman, the Bahamas, or San Marino as off-shore financial centers. They know too well that if it all went wrong again, as it will one day if they are not regulated more tightly, they’d definitely be toast.

  427. This is called “not having any political or ethical conscience”, or: “being so selfish and self centered” = to hell with the reste of you as long as I’m happy. What a nice mentality…

  428. Followed this in Private Eye. Stunned that the guy moved onto the Isle of Wight and id exactly the same thing with the same company.

    If there was not formal, by which they mean legel contract, then the contract is a between private individuals – the council officers – and High Point Rendel. The private individuals should cough up and pay.

  429. The Man In The White Suit

    Looks like I am banned, can we have a statement please Angie or Glenn

  430. While events are proving the necessity for the retention of the east coast Coastguard centre:

    Mr Photo-Opportunity is adorning the SEN, trying to prop up Foxy’s drooping tail:

    You couldn’t make it up and you don’t have to.

  431. Everything’s gonna be alright! The cavalry are here!

    (Overheard in Council: “Which one is the East pier Lighthouse?”.

    I kid you not.


    Dear Mr Goodwill,



    Thank you for your letter of 25th february regarding the above.

    I would begin by assuring you and those that[sic] have contacted you that I have no reason to doubt the structural integrity of the Lighthouse at Whitby.

    Obviously by its location it is in a very hostile environment and this has, over the years, caused the exterior to weather. Nevertheless this does not render it unsafe.

    The obleisk is a listed structure and we liaise with English Heritage on this status. We will bear this in mind in terms of prioritising the funding we may have available to address any deterioration.

    Should it ever become necessary to prevent the public from gaining access near to the Lighthouse, we will of course act in the interest of public safety. However, as stated above we don’t believe that to be necessary.

    I trust this clarifies the situation.

    Assuring you of our best endeavours,

    Yours sincerely,

    John Riby
    Head of Technical Services – SBC

    Right, John. Just cordon it off and forget about it – like the bridge to the East Pier extension or the lower deck of the West Pier Extension, and so on, all the way back to the New Bridge.

    May as well just cordon off Whitby altogether – or maybe not; that would make SBC miss out on all the parking revenue and harbour dues.

  433. Not long now until there’s a diversion sign the end of Mayfield road, Whitby structually unsafe, please follow diversion signs to Scarborough.

  434. Another excellent cartoon with a serious point wrapped in a chuckle: well done, Codhead.

  435. Disgusting.

    We have a Borough Council that is sending out Council Tax Demands with references to “refuse collection services”, and here we have evidence showing that the services are not fit for purpose.

    I feel that we are being ripped off. Or, worse the Borough Council are openly DEFRAUDING the tax payer.

    I feel it’s more like the second option….

    I can find no evidence to show otherwise, and none seems to be forthcoming.

  436. I was down along the West Beach today. I could not believe that they were erecting the chalets again in mid-March – despite some of the highest tides of the year due next week. and northerly gales forecast, too. Madness.

    Tom Brod has been nagging them about this for the last five years.

    Re-reading some of the comments above, quite some time after they were written, I cannot imagine anyone’s motives for defending this wasteful and wanton stupidity – nor for attacking Tom Brodrick for trying so hard to prevent it.

    And anonymously, at that.

    Check it out for yourselves:

  437. Spring tides this weekend and early next week. Current forecast is fair

  438. Someone likes this topic. 180 hits in no time at all. Whose looking in and where did you get the link from ??

  439. 900 hits this evening. The majority coming from :

    Its amazing how quick these sites pick up on something.

  440. Geoffrey Wishart

    I came to the WGW last October on my birthday, as it is on Halloween, mainly to take photographs of the event, and was amazed at the beautiful costumes that many participants were wearing and also was really comfortable with the friendly atmosphere. Everyone was enjoying themselves, laughing and drinking and just having fun. This year in March I am going to dress up too. I am going to be King Charles II. I have made my own costume, first time I have used a sewing maching, and have tried it out for friends comments and they have all said how nice it is, so I am looking forward to this coming event. The only thing I will miss is taking photos myself. Probably see you all there.

  441. “arriva (Italian.) {interj.} [naut.] = up {interj.} [naut.]”

    Who’s up whom?

  442. Fellow travellers – with a common purpose . . .

  443. Well done, Glenn. If only our elected representatives (and local print-media reporters) would get out and investigate the preposterous self-congratulatory propaganda of SBC for themselves:

    The truth is that once you step away from the main tourist thoroughfares, you will find astonishing amounts of litter, cans, bottles, nappies, syringes – you name it.

    That said, I cannot praise too highly the diligence (and the good-natured morning greetings) of Keith Gilpin – SBC’s east-side street and beach cleaner. Pity only that diligence and friendliness occur in SBC in inverse proportion to rank – with the rudest and least conscientious at the very top of the pile.

  444. I know Keith well and have for a lot of years. A true gent in every sense of the word. I must admit that a lot of the lads who work for SBC in Whitby do a really good job.

  445. I’ll ask my criminal associates, if they would be willing to litter-pick the East -Side, as part of our community punishments.

  446. Glenn Kilpatrick

    That would be a good idea Peter. After you’ve finished painting all the rotten woodwork of course. I believe my eldest lad is one of your associates on the chain gang by the way.

  447. This story is incredible. It could only happen in Whitby!!

  448. If the dredger is not dredging, why doesn’t Mr Ian Anderson explain what it is doing and under who’s authority. But no, he just denies everything and explains nothing. He wouldn’t know the truth if it fell on him.

  449. Have they replied to this FOI yet??

    • No.

      Here is the URL for SBC’s Disclosure Log for March 2011:

      FOIA1408 (Names of personnel earning over £58,000) is the only one of mine that has been fulfilled.

      In flagrant disregard of the ICO Guidelines, Whitby Town (Parish) Council does not provide a Disclosure Log on its sorry little web-site at all.

      It does not even keep anywhere near up-to-date with Agendas and Minutes of Meetings:

      Re Glenn’s comment (below), I had a lengthy meeting with SBC’s Head of Legal & Support Services on Friday last. The long and the short of it is that they will not comply with the FOIA if a response stands to incriminate them – they have no fear of the Informatioin Commissioner, who is predisposed to coming down on their side anyway, and generally takes over a year to do so.

      So much for Mr Cameron and Mr Pickles upholding ‘transparency’!

  450. Last I heard was they will not release any information because it contains commercially sensitive information

  451. Wolves in gulls’ clothing.
    Are they hunters
    or do they only
    eat carrion?

  452. and crap conspicuously and copiously, to mark their territory?

  453. Ian Anderson Threatened me with Referral to the Standard’s Board, if I were to seek Election to the Parish.

  454. Look on the bright side – we’re weeding them out.

    ‘Captain’ Martin Willis, the Borough Harbour Master, has cracked under the pressure and resigned his post. Not so long ago, he was bragging to me that he “knew his duties and knew how to conduct them”.

    Rumour has it that his good lady Nicola Willis, Head of Transformational Management at SBC (whateve the hell that is – it’s certainly not clear from her Job Description) is a likely victim of the cuts.

    So who will employ a new Harbour Master? The new ‘pilot’ Harbour Board, or SBC? Let’s hope he (or she) is adequately qualified with a genuine Master Mariner’s ticket.

  455. The gurl with the daffodils is strikingly beautiful. All the pictures are really nice. Thanks for sharing them. Ive put some on my blog and linked back as you requested. I have emailed you the details.

  456. As always it was great to see the Goth’s in town today. Some really nice people about and it was great to get talking to people around town. The main topic of conversation seemed to be the fact that there is 2 separate events running this year on completely different weekends. The town did not seem as busy as other years and one wonders if the alleged rivalry between the 2 organisers and the 2 separate events has had a negative effect on the event as a whole. Lets hope that next year something can be sorted out to unite the events for the better good of all involved.

    • Not much sign of life at the Dark Daisy web-site (maybe they only update it during the hours of darkness?), and I hear that Sam Hall’s phone is on the blink, too.

      The Goths bring a great deal to Whitby and nobody wants to lose them, so it’s very worrying that there seems to have been a bit of a downturn. Times are tight enough.

      My two penn’orth ( for what it’s worth) is that the Goth scene would benefit from a more professional set-up who can build fresh relationships with the Council and the other venuses, so as to re-unify the Goth loyalties by offering a reliable and more enterprising product.

      Whitby is where the Goths want to come. First choice every time. But Whitby shouldn’t be complacent about that. If the scene is sorted, the Goths will be back.

      • I can just imagine Nigel in a steam punk outfit..question is Cheerios or not? 🙂 I would, but they would clash with my catsuit…..;-)


    “In the darkening, harken to the barking of the DOG FOX – gone to ground”. [Pink Floyd]

  458. I hope they have a dreadful time. The state of the country at present is terrible and their hidden agenda is so very evident. The less well off members of society get shafted under every conservative government and this one will be no different. So lets send a clear message via the local elections.

    • Frank L. Chalmers

      It’s not just the Conservatives that has seen the less well off shafted.

      Let’s take a look at how much debt the last Government left us with. So much debt that our grandchildren will still be paying it off.

      Worse… EVERY single Government we’ve ever had has left us up the river without a paddle or a prayer.

      I don’t think it is the fault of any one “party” any more, and more the fault of the scum we elect.

      • … and the fault of the so-called “democratic” system which just sees each lot of hypocritical liars take turn & turn about to perpetuate the charade.

  459. Pete, it’s not a wolf, it,s a FOX

  460. “Any port in a storm?”

    (Or whisky, vodka, rum – whatever’s your tipple, Cap’n!)

  461. Frank L. Chalmers

    Surfers against sewage?

    Hypocrites more like. How many of them take a dump and then flush it away without a second thought?

    Where do they think their dumps go? La la land perhaps?


    I am not happy that the waters aren’t clean, but when the Surfers against sewage aren’t coming up with sensible, practical solutions and demanding they be implemented, they just look like a bunch of whinging school children.

  462. Frank L. Chalmers


    • You must have some enemies, Frank.

      Why else would anyone give you the Thumbs Down for saying “Nice”?

      BTW, I would like to meet you. What about a coffee and a sticky bun sometime? My treat.

  463. It is a shame about staithes, BUT a lot of the polution is not just domestic waste,
    staithes is a rural area and as such has a lot of run off from the surounding countryside,
    chemicals leeching from the land down into a natural run off area does not help the situation,
    but i do agree a solution needs to be found ,

  464. Well said Frank, im not one for any one party bashing, that would make me biased and blinkered, most parties we have are all the same in the end..if labour gets in this time, we will be pulling them apart soon enough!

    Is RealWhitby now supporting a certain political persuasion now…I would have thought it should be neutral…shame

    • I think you’ve answered your own question Angela: “most parties we have are all the same in the end”, very true, but it just so happens that the Tories comprise the majority of the ruling coalition in national government right now, so they are the ones to ‘bash’ at the moment, and Real Whitby is giving people the opportunity to do that. If people want to come forward and express opposing or similarly contentious views, politely and coherently, I confidently expect to see them here as well.

  465. hello..We are a band called STORM.This is the second time we have played during the goth weekend..We did two nights at the pier pub..We always have a fantastic time and find the whole experience brilliant.Whitby is a lovely place and during goth week adds that something different…We are back during the November goth weekend the 4th and 5th.Please check our web site at also our facebook site..Cheers the Storm boys

  466. Hi Niel, thanks for posting your comment on the site. We are always pleased to hear from people who read the site. Could you keep in touch with us and let us know next time your playing and Ill nip down ang get some photographs, with your permission of course.

  467. Frank L. Chalmers

    I’m hoping that rather than supporting a “party”, that Real Whitby will be supporting the open, honest, and worthy candidates.

    I cannot say I care which party the candidates stand for, as long as they do as they are supposed to…. SERVE US!

  468. thanks for replying and no poblem about pics…great magazine by the way and keep up the good work

  469. 100/114 looks like she has Cheerios stuck to her face lol cool shots Glenn – nice one 🙂

  470. Frank L. Chalmers

    Do SBC know about this?

    I have an acquaintance, who has been telling me about the promises and delays from SBC in relation to vast amounts of garbage in his local community. Lots of communications making promises of “sorting the problem out”, but absolutely no action on SBC’s part.

    That must be what the exhorbitant Council Tax is paid for – them to sit on their asses!

    • they forgot to say enything about sewage going down arundel place and into streets when it rains they must think its ok becouse they doint live there and rain washes it into peoples property.if its not there problem why do we pay council taxes.

  471. Here are some FACTS for supporters of the “Nasty Party” ( Conservatives ) to digest, firstly at the begining of the credit crunch and banking crisis in 2007, the national debt was LOWER than what it was when the Conservatives left office ten years earlier.

    It was not the last government who caused the debt problem, it was banks, however Gordon Browns government did purposely support the economy to keep the worst effects of the recession away, and in doing so we suffered less unemployment than our major competitors, less bankrupt businesses and less home reposessions.

    Of course the Conservatives will lose both seats and votes in next months elections, and the more seats they lose – the better as far as I am concerned.
    Recently Jane Kenyon stated that losing a quarter of their funding and hundreds of police officers should not affect front line policing, sorry Jane but you are obviously out of your mind.

    To all those who voted Conservative in the general election, dont moan, dont moan when the mobile library goes, when theres no buses, dont moan when you get robbed at 3 am and the nearest police officer is in Scarborough or Northalerton, and please dont moan when a private health company closes down most of the remaining services at Whitby Hospital because its “UNPROFITABLE”.

  472. OLD PHOTO ( unknown team ) – Just had a quick glance and I recognise one of the men, dressed in dark jacket with tie, on the left of the picture, middle row and looking away from the camera – he is most definately a “Hoggarth” and I am pretty sure its “Barney Hoggarth” – Barney farmed at Low Stakesby until the mid 1960s the farm was on the site of what is now Stakesby School.

    After compulsory purchase by the council, Barney moved to Hinderwell but continued using the pastures at Low Stakesby until about 1968, the men in the photograph are dressed for summer, some with trophies, my guess is possibly a Quoits team.

    • Hello David,

      What a fantastic set of photos! I’m particularly interested in the one of East Row, Sandsend. There is a cross on the photo above the house my Grandparents owned. Do you know any of the history of this photograph?

    • I think this photo I not of my father as he looks too old on it. It could be my grandfather or one of his brothers.

  473. hi David the old photo,s belonged to my late grandfather his name was Arthur Heseltine, he used to live in the north east saltburn area, if thats any help to you

  474. On to this:

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Nigel
    Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 9:06 PM
    Subject: Attn: Louise Jackson – FOIA request


    I would like to lodge a request for information under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, please.

    My request concerns the workings of the ‘Extended Schools’ initiative brought in by the then Labour Government, I believe around 2007/8.

    My request concerns three separate categories of participant in the Extended Schools initiative, as administered by NYCC – restricted to participants in the Whitby locality. (Whitby Schools Cluster).

    The three categories of participant (ie provider of extra-curricular facilities and amenties) are:

    A) Private Sector (business enterprises),

    B) Public Sector (Councils, etc),

    C) Voluntary Sector (charities, trusts, etc).

    I accept that there are issues of Data Protection and ‘commercial confidentiality’ concomitant with my request and therefore accept that some information may be subject to redaction on those grounds. I propose to obviate the need for redaction, however, on the basis that I am satisfied if individual participants (facility/amenity providers) are referred to by arbitrary numerical reference numbers in the range #001 – #100 (or more, as necessary).

    The information I seek, separately for each of my categories A, B and C, is as follows:

    In each of the years (or parts of a year) since the inception of the Extended School initiative in the Whitby locality,

    1) How many participants have there been?

    2) At what intervals of time do the participant return vouchers to NYCC?

    3) Are these voucher returns preceded, accompanied or followed by ‘invoices’ pursuant to the number of vouchers?

    4) Please list the amounts payable, with dates, on all such ‘invoices’ by each participant indentified by the arbitrary numerical reference number system described above.

    5) Does the accounts department of NYCC harbour concerns (or has, at any time) regarding the authenticity of the vouchers returned by participants? If so, please identify, using the arbitrary numerical reference number system described above.

    6) Does the accounts department of NYCC (or has, at any time) harbour concerns regarding the veracity of the amounts invoiced by participants? If so, please identify, using the arbitrary numerical reference number system described above.

    7) How many vouchers were officially issued in the Whitby locality (Whitby Schools Cluster)?

    8) How many vouchers have been thus far returned?

    9) Have any Councty Councillors played any active role whatsoever in mediating between participants and the Council in respective of services or billing or any issue relating thereto? If so, which Councillor(s)?

    10) Is the Council presently investigating any aspect of the conduct of the Extended Schools initiative in the Whitby locality.
    I would be grateful if the responding officer would adhere strictly to the numerical order of my request, and observed my distinctions between the three categories of participant.

    Although I have lodged this request under the FOIA, I am at pains to point out that my request is made very much in the public interest at a very sensitive time – the run-up to Local Council elections in the Borough of Scarborough and its Parishes. I would therefore regard it as a proper compliance with Mr Cameron’s (and Mr Pickles) aspiration to transparency and accountability at all levels of government if a special effort could be made to unstintingly comply with my request as quickly as possible – and certainly not later than Thursday 19th April 2011, two weeks prior to Election Day.

    I also remind you that it is ‘best practice’ to retain each email of a given ‘thread’ within the body of each new e-communication, so as to give all parties a convenient overview of the exchange to date. Thank you.

    Finally, it is my preference (as you well know) to be addressed by my given name – ‘Nigel’. Please respect that preference. Thank you.

    Yours, with kind regards,


  475. At the school I take my child to it was in the later part of last year parents were made aware that the voucher scheme was open to all children. There must have been 2/3 vouchers per week per child issued, these had the childs name and a vaild till date printed on them. Voucher use was called off early at end of feb this year to all children including those that the scheme originally benefited before it was rolled out to all children and abused.

    I heard that one provider of activities had claimed for more hours than the children were in fact using. The person processing the sheets submitted by each provider, which show the hours each child has been using an activity, noticed a child down as using one providers activities during hours that child was attending school. After this was discovered the people running the scheme had talks with this provider and the provider was still permitted to accept vouchers until the scheme was stopped.

  476. For a good rant or debate on NATIONAL ISSUES try >

  477. Why the Pied Piper of Ruswarp> Does Codhead know something we dont?

  478. And now this email to NYCC Councillors:
    —– Original Message —–
    From: Nigel
    To: ; Cllr.Herbert TINDALL ; ; Councillor Joe Plant
    Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 5:59 PM
    Subject: The burgeoning scandal surrounding the alleged abuse of the ‘Extended Schools’ initiative in N Yorkshire

    Cllr Herbert TINDALL – for Esk Valley – NYCC
    Cllr Joe PLANT – for Whitby West Cliff – NYCC
    Cllr Jane KENYON – for Mayfield & Mulgrave – NYCC
    Cllr Helen SWIRES – for Scalby & Coast – NYCC


    Following my request under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000 addressed to NYCC’s Data Information Officer Louise Jackson on Tuesday 29th March 2011 (copied below, in the interests of transparency), much has come to light, from a wide variety of sources, concerning allegations of wholesale (dare I say ‘and retail’) abuses of the ‘Extended Schools’ voucher system, known, I believe as ‘Me2’. With the benefit of hindsight, the name may have been ill-chosen.

    It would appear that the circumstances surrounding these allegations are about to enter the public domain via the blogosphere as well as in the local, regional and (perhaps) national newspapers.

    Since it is (to the best of my knowledge) the case that each of you represents a ward in which members of the Whitby Schools Cluster maintain a presence, I believe you are the proper members to approach in search of much-needed clarification.

    Strolling around Whitby today, with my family, I have encountered a number of members of the Whitby public who have spoken freely of how their children have been fortunate to benefit from the largesse of the voucher system.

    Some of them have related astonishing stories of such flagrant abuses of the system that I feel bound, in the public interest, to make further enquiries. One father spoke of witnessing the allocation of a ‘ceramic pot’ bearing a retail price of circa £90 (yes, ninety pounds) to a child on presentation of a single voucher. That goes a very long way beyond the intended provision of an hour’s extra-curricular instruction for the child of a needy family.

    I should, perhaps, here mention that, in addition to my FOIA N2971 request, I have also written to Mr Brian Bennett, Head of Tourism & Culture at SBC, with whom, I have no doubt, you are well acquainted. Brian has yet to respond. Again in the interests of transparency, I append a copy of my email to Brian, below – immediately above the FOIA N2971 already mentioned.

    Given the large number of ‘stakeholders’ in the ‘Extended Schools’ system, and given the proximity of the forthcoming local elections on 5th May 2011 (in which, one imagines, some of you may hold an interest), I believe that the spirit of Mr Cameron’s pledge for ‘transparency and accountability’ within all levels of government will now be best served if each of you were to offer a comprehensive and exhaustive statement regarding your respective involvements in the voucher system, if any, and openly declaring any family connections that may or may not be viewed as prejudicial to good order. It may be that one or more of you holds a Committee position with the remit to consider, for example, education and young persons issues. That would provide a vantage point from which particularly illuminating information could (and should) be shared with the electorate

    Of course, I can do no more than request your co-operation in the matter. I can certainly offer to do my best to ensure that your statements, if any, reach the wider public. The same can be said for any reluctance you may evince to offer complete transparency, which would certainly be a matter of public interest.

    The education sector is the rightful recipient of investment by central government. It is an investment in nothing less than the future of our society. The cynical abuse of such funding is morally unforgivable. I trust you share my view on that.

    Thank you all for the best of your attention. I look forward to hearing from you very soon indeed.

    Yours, with kind regards,


    Cc: The Rt Hon Eric Pickles MP. Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government.

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Nigel
    To: Brian Bennett
    Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 1:53 PM
    Subject: ‘Extended Schools’ voucher system

    Mr Brian BENNETT – Head of Tourism & Culture – SBC


    I am writing to you today in the spirit of transparency and accountability much trumpeted by our Prime Minister, the Rt. Hon. David Cameron MP.

    I am privy to information regarding NYCC’s ‘Extended Schools’ initiative ‘voucher’ system, as practised thoughout North Yorkshire, and, in particular, under the overview of the Whitby Schools Cluster.

    Sources including education sector professionals, school governors and elected members are discussing the allegation that certain SBC facilities and amenities have participated in the scheme.

    More disturbing is the allegation that, at one or more SBC facility (facilities), vouchers have been accepted not only against amenities and services, but also against goods of considerable value.

    Ahead of any possible publication in the media or on the world wide web or so-called blogosphere, would you please be so good as to offer me a comprehensive statement of confirmation (or denial) that this has been the case – before close of play today, Friday 1st April 2011, if you would not mind?

    In my view, it would be irresponsible to publish such serious allegations without offering the Council a ‘right of reply’. However, the speed at which these allegations are permeating the public awareness requires prompt action on your part – as I am sure you must understand.

    I look forward to your unstinting co-operation on this matter.

    Yours, with very kind regards,


    • Frank L. Chalmers

      Curious how all four are Conservatives… what a coincidence.

      I’m a “right winger” to quote the false ‘left/right’ paradigm, but this seems to be a bit too much of a coincidence for me.

  479. LATEST: 9:38 PM Saturday 2nd April 2011.
    —– Original Message —–
    From: Cllr.Jane Kenyon
    To: Nigel
    Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 9:38 PM
    Subject: Re: The burgeoning scandal surrounding the alleged abuse of the ‘Extended Schools’ initiative in N Yorkshire

    Good evening Nigel. Your email raises some very serious issues and I
    feel duty bound to pass them to the monitoring officer at NYCC Ms.
    Carole Dunn.

    My response:

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Nigel
    To: Cllr.Jane Kenyon
    Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 10:02 PM
    Subject: Re: The burgeoning scandal surrounding the alleged abuse of the ‘Extended Schools’ initiative in N Yorkshire

    Cllr Jane KENYON – for Mayfield & Mulgrave – NYCC


    Good evening to you.

    I thank you for your very prompt rejoinder, and I compliment you on your prudence – though naturally I am disappointed that you feel unable to make a more enlightening statement at this time.

    Please convey my respects to Ms Dunn, with whom you are most welcome to share my email address. You may assure her that I am very willing to make available to her such information as I am able to provide.

    Kind regards,


    • Frank L. Chalmers

      Typical evasion.

      Why do these SCUMBAGS never respond to the points raised?
      What are they afraid of?
      What are they hiding?
      Who are they protecting?

      Just my two cents.

    • UPDATE: Sunday Lunchtime. Funny how I send email after email to which no response is forthcoming, but just now and then I find myself at the top of the agenda . . .
      —– Original Message —–
      From: Cllr.Jane Kenyon
      To: Nigel
      Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 1:27 PM
      Subject: Re: The burgeoning scandal surrounding the alleged abuse ofthe ‘Extended Schools’ initiative in N Yorkshire

      Will do Nigel. Cant make any other comment as I do not have the
      information you require. However as I said previously you raise serious
      issues which do require the monitoring officers intervention,
      —– Original Message —–
      From: Nigel
      To: Cllr.Jane Kenyon
      Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 3:48 PM
      Subject: Re: The burgeoning scandal surrounding the alleged abuse ofthe ‘Extended Schools’ initiative in N Yorkshire

      Cllr Jane KENYON – for Mayfield & Mulgrave – NYCC


      Hello again.

      Point taken. Nullo problemo.

      “Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.” Ludwig Wittgenstein.

      Joe has been quite helpful. I hope to meet with Carole in due course.


      All very anodyne.

      I have also had some correspondence with Cllr Joe Plant – too voluminous to post here. I’ll find somewhere . . .

  480. Reading through this lot I share, and commend, Jane Kenyon, for at least acknowledging that this is a serious issue indeed.
    When she says “I feel duty bound to pass them to the monitoring officer at NYCC” , I hope that she does not intend to retreat behind the closed door of secrecy.
    The issue has been brought to the attention of the attention of four persons elected by the public to act upon their behalf, is this the best response that they can muster between them?
    The public are very much involved in this issue both as providers (taxpayers) and recipients. Many of the recipients, perhaps, innocently unaware of the manner in which this scheme was, apparently, being abused.
    If the latter is the case then discussing it in an Open, Honest and Transparent manner is the only way to uncover the extent to which any abuse, or otherwise, of the the vouchers took place.

  481. Its such a shame that the project (If true) has been abused. My children were given some of these tokens and used them at Mini Monsterz in Ruswarp and at the leisure centre. I was quite perplexed when my son told me that the project had finished early because the council had run out of money, he also told me that Mini Monsterz had not been paid. Like I say its a shame its been abused, it sounds to me that the scheme was not thought out properly in the first place, surely it would have been right to put a maximum value on the tokens and also to have them means tested so that they could be targeted at the least well off families of the town.

  482. I absolutely agree with Al Roberts. Any alleged misuse of public funds, notwithstanding the current parlous state of government funding, needs to be investigated thoroughly, stringently, and unceasingly, in a totally open & transparent manner, to avoid the public’s already perilously low regard of public probity being completely and irrevocably eroded.

  483. Nothing back from Cllr Herbert TINDALL or Cllr Helen SWIERS yet. But Cllr Jane KENYON has been very helpful, though she has no new information to impart.

    Cllr Joe PLANT has had the good grace to venture some sort of an explanation.

    Here is our first email exchange (second to follow):

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Cllr.Joe Plant
    To: Nigel
    Cc: Cllr.Helen Swiers
    Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 10:29 PM
    Subject: Re: The burgeoning scandal surrounding the alleged abuse of the ‘Extended Schools’ initiative in N Yorkshire
    ** High Priority **


    Thank you for the email.

    I helped to promote the ME TOO pilot scheme and this was published in the Whitby Gazette.

    I had no influence at all in choosing any of the providers this was down to the people who were running it. Extended Schools. It was them who had to see if the providers were suitable for the scheme not me. Like I said I helped to promote the scheme. I am a member of the children and young people scrutiny committee. Also attend and Chair the Childrens Centre’s group in Whitby which represents all of the Northern Area. So I knew how important it was to promote the scheme for the underprivileged children as we have many.

    The headteachers of the schools run the scheme with support from Officers from NYCC. Whitby Community College are the administrators and so all the bills go there and I have no influence over payment of the

    I do have a son who is married into one of the providers family and must state that he has no control over the business whatsoever. On the advise of the NYCC legal officer I did declare a personal interest when I brought concerns about the scheme to the council’s attention. I said the following, I am really concerned how the ME TOO voucher scheme is being run in Whitby. The scheme is aimed for families on free school
    meals and benefits, it started off very well, now it is really really silly. Families on big wages get them, and this is how silly it is, a millionaire lottery winner gets them. Vouchers are photo copied, forged and even sold on to other people. This info is from people on the street how true it is, i do not know. But I know that the whole scheme has lost its meaning. The losers are and will be the families that need

    I also brought to the attention of the council that some providers were not being paid as the rumour was there was not enough money in the pot, one of which was the provider that my son is married into the family.
    This is because all of the providers knew I helped to promote the scheme. The advice I got from an officer was to tell providers who had problems to get in touch with the college as they are the administrators.

    As I understand now the scheme will start up again after the audit. The reason for the audit was because of the concerns I raised from what I was hearing from the street and providers.

    I hope this helps.

    Please note that this has being copied into the Legal Officer of the County Council and any further emails on this matter will be passed on and I will reply in the same manner.


    Joe Plant

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Nigel
    To: Councillor Joe Plant
    Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2011 12:29 AM
    Subject: Re: The burgeoning scandal surrounding the alleged abuse of the ‘Extended Schools’ initiative in N Yorkshire

    Cllr Joe PLANT – for Whitby West Cliff – NYCC


    Thank you for your email.

    I am grateful for the information that you have done me the kindness of sharing. I do feel, though, that it would have been no bad decision had you taken a little more time to provide a response that answered more questions than it raises.

    To address your points more clearly, I will deal with them on a paragraph-by-paragraph basis, numbering as I go, for ease of reference.

    1) I am aware that you helped to promote the ME TOO initiative. I believe that it would be helpful to elucidate, for the public, in what capacity you were acting, and on what authority.

    2) I take your point that you had no influence in the selection or approval of ‘providers’ and that such was the responsibility of ‘the people who were running it’. It would have been helpful to identify who they actually were. Please do so.

    Would you please provide me with the criteria used to determine the ‘suitability of providers – or, if you are unable to do so, to direct me to the proper person to provide that information?

    Thank you for the information that you are a member of the Children and Young People Scrutiny Committee, and that you Chair and attend the Children’s Centre group in Whitby, representing all of the Northern Area.

    3) Thank you for the information that the scheme is run by the headteachers of the schools. It would be very helpful if you would be so good as to identify the Schools involved, together with the names and contact details of their respective headteachers. Please do so.

    Thank you, too, for the information that the administrator(s) of the scheme is/are Whitby Community College. I believe I am correct in stating that the WCC headteacher is Mr Keith Prytherch, with whom I am personally acquainted. If I interpret you correctly, you are stating that all the bills (invoices) are/were submitted by the providers to the Whitby Community College. Is that correct? I take your point that you have no direct influence in the payment procedures. Your use of the term ‘administrators’ implies that WCC was in charge of the disbursement of payments to providers, in settlement of invoices, on behalf of another party. It would have been helpful had you disclosed the identity of that other party. Please do so.

    4) The information that you have a son who is married to a member of a provider’s family is appreciated, as is your assurance that he holds no influence over the conduct of the provider’s business.

    Thank you for the information that, on the advice of the NYCC legal officer, you did declare a personal interest when you brought concerns about the conduct of the scheme to the Council’s attention. When was that?

    It would have been helpful had you identified the NYCC legal officer. Please do so.

    For clarity, may I take it that the declaration to which you refer is on the record? Would you please be so good as to direct me to that record? Thank you.

    It would also have been helpful had you identified to whom at the Council you reported your concerns, and indeed to have outlined the nature of those concerns. Please do so.

    I am deeply troubled by your alleged statement to the NYCC legal officer that (here, I quote you verbatim) “I am really concerned how the ME TOO voucher scheme is being run in Whitby. The scheme is aimed for families on free school meals and benefits, it started off very well, now it is really really silly. Families on big wages get them, and this is how silly it is, a millionaire lottery winner gets them. Vouchers are photo copied, forged and even sold on to other people. This info is from people on the street how true it is, i do not know. But I know that the whole scheme has lost its meaning. The losers are and will be the families that need them.” Do these words form the content, or part of the content of a letter or email? If so, to whom and of what date?

    It is astonishing to me that allegations such as you state you made at that time to the NYCC legal officer could conceivably have been made unless you were in no doubt whatsoever as to their veracity. The suggestion that ‘a millionaire lottery winner’ was involved in any inappropriate application of the system stands in perilous jeopardy of being tantamount to a libel, since millionaire lottery winners are few and far between in Whitby – to the tune, perhaps, of just the one.

    That aside, on what basis did you determine that the scandalous abuses of the system that you have described could conceivably be justifiably withheld from the public knowledge?

    You have identified most clearly the losers in this disgraceful episode. The issue now is to identify the ‘winners’ – if one may even begin to apply such a characterization to people who have knowingly diverted funds intended for the needy to their own greed and avarice.

    I sincerely hope that your son’s wife and in-laws are not implicated. If that were to prove the case, it is my humble opinion that your own position would be utterly untenable, if for no other reason than that your silence could all too easily be interpreted as (at best) a knowledge of guilt, and (at worst) complicity.

    5) I thank you for the information that you brought to the Council’s attention the rumours that some providers were not being paid as there remained insufficient funds ‘in the pot’. When was that, Joe, if you would be so good? To whom did you make that known. The information that amongst those providers was the one to whom your son holds a relationship by marriage gives rise to concerns that you were, in effect, lobbying for payment on their behalf. Surely, the officer or Councillor to whom you made that information known must have cautioned you on the inappropriateness of such conduct? Given that you had expressed concerns regarding the legitimacy of the practices involved – including the alleged photocopying and/or forgery of vouchers and the selling-on of same – it was surely your duty to report the matter post haste to the Monitoring Officer and the Audit Committee. Why did you not do so? Did you not have a duty to the public? Should the matter not have been declared openly in the public domain, perhaps by way of the media?

    Your remark “This is because all of the providers knew I helped to promote the scheme” seems to me to be a non sequitur. Would you mind, please, explaining what you intended by that remark? Thank you.

    Would you please identify the officer who advised you to tell the as-yet-unpaid providers to contact the College, as they were the administrators? When was that?

    6) Thank you for the information that the scheme will start up again after ‘the audit’. It would have been helpful had you referred earlier to an audit. When was that audit instigated? On whose authority?

    7) Your email has been of help, Joe, though not as exhaustively as I had hoped. I look forward to you clarifying all the points that I have raised.

    8) I must confess to being at a complete loss to interpret your closing remark “Please note that this has being copied into the Legal Officer of the County Council and any further emails on this matter will be passed on and I will reply in the same manner.” Would you be so good as to explain what you had in mind? Thank you.

    Please note that I have Cc:’d Ms Carole Dunn into this email. In the interest of transparency and accountability I reserve the right to publish such correspondence as I believe best serves the public interest into the public domain.

    By your own admission, Joe, there appears to have been an astonishing abuse of public funds. It is my information that other County Councillors, in other areas, are also deeply concerned. The entire fiasco appears to have been contained ‘behind closed doors’. I conclude, for now, by reminding you (and Ms Dunn) of the word’s of Mr Cameron on 12th September 2010:

    “For too long those in power made decisions behind closed doors, released information behind a veil of jargon and denied people the power to hold them to account. This coalition is driving a wrecking ball through that culture – and it’s called transparency.”

    On that unequivocal note, I bid you goodnight.



  484. Interesting quote from Tony Mok who is the head at East Whitby.

    It has come to my notice that pupils/families not from East Whitby have somehow obtained East Whitby School vouchers and are using them fraudulently. Not only is this illegal but it reflects very badly on us as a school, as people will automatically assume the worst, and accuse East Whitby parents of passing the vouchers on.

    Quote from

    The plot thickens.

  485. angela
    March 27, 2011 – 11:04 pm

    Well said Frank, im not one for any one party bashing, that would make me biased and blinkered, most parties we have are all the same in the end..if labour gets in this time, we will be pulling them apart soon enough!

    Is RealWhitby now supporting a certain political persuasion now…I would have thought it should be neutral…shame

    Report this comment

    I think the way Angela’s post has been rated sums people up on here

    I therefore presume the vast majority on here think we should “PARTY BASH” and think we should all have the “SAME POLITICAL VIEW”

    I used to think this site was great, but it seems to be going down hill fast


  486. Rudolf

    Totally agree with has the right to tell you which way to vote or which party to believe in..I dont care how many people thumb down my comments..I shall remain unbiased – even if Real Whitby isnt!


    PS One person can vote as many times as they like, so one person could have thumbed me down 11 times! Democracy eh…pah!!

    • Glenn Kilpatrick

      Hi Angela, I have emailed Poll Daddy about your concerns of multiple ratings. It is there plugin I use for the ratings and it is supposed to limmit each person to 1 rating per comment, using both IP and a cookie to identify each individual voter.

      • I have received the following reply from the polldaddy plugin developer. I hope the problem of multiple votes will be sorted the next time the plugin is updated :

        Hi Glenn,

        there was a bug in the cookie expiration that was causing this, thanks very much for highlighting it. I have added a fix so any future ratings will have a longer period before they can rate again
        – Show quoted text –

  487. Nigel
    A reply within 3 hours and 39 minutes (at the weekend too)and you are still not happy? Goodness almighty, no wonder you are treated as vexatious!
    If I was emailed regarding something so serious, I would reply to say I would action it and then look into it at greater depth before answering – wouldnt you???
    I would also err you away from emailing quite so many people about one issue expecting them all to look into it at the same time independently – think how many man/woman hours that takes up and how much extra it costs the taxpayer!

    • Frank L. Chalmers

      It wouldn’t cost John Q. Taxpayer a cent if this sort of crooked behaviour wasn’t happening in the first place.
      Are you in anyway defending their actions? Are you in on the scam? Are you a PUBLIC SERVANT? I surely hope not, on all three counts
      As for the “reply”, once elected you are a councillor every minute of every day, until you leave office. For example, if the Russians launched a first strike at 3am tomorrow (unlikely, but it’s an example), as a Councillor, you would likely be called out of be to do your duty for King and Country. 3am!!! Think about that.
      As an elected representative you are there to SERVE the interests of the community, not to fill your pockets, or to dictate to the community. Nay, you are there to do as the community tells you to do. Something this lot seem to have forgotten – conveniently or otherwise.

  488. Joe Plant has done a lot for our community. Seems to me that the problems lie further up the ladder than a local councillor. Perhaps he has done us a favour by bringing this flaw out into the open. I think we need to know the whole truth instead of speculating about things that we don’t know anything about. We all know what Whitby is like!! I thought this site had more integrity than that!!! Or is this just another cheap site set up to slag local people off! Why not dig around a bit more and get to the root of the problem instead of trying to pin the blame on a guy that has done so much for Whitby. Don’t forget, you said it yourself, Me Too – introduced by LABOUR!!! Says it all really, doesn’t it.

    • I do not doubt that Joe Plant has done a lot for the community, isn’t that why he offered himself for election?
      I do not doubt that the problem lies further up the ladder than Joe, and if that is the case then he must climb that ladder to find the person on the top rung.
      Im not sure that Joe has done us the favour of bringing this flaw into the open, chronologically that accolade, apparently, goes to Mr Mok on 21st Jan 2011.
      Since that time the issue appears to have lain “dormant” and probably would have been conveniently ignored had not Nigel Ward tried to prise open the secret cupboard at NYCC/SBC.
      We do need to know the whole truth and, it appears so far, that Joe is unable to provide that quality. Nigel is asking the questions that, perhaps, Joe should have done long ago.
      Why not dig around a bit more and get to the root of the problem? you ask. I think that is exactly what Nigel is doing, and is in fact what the SBC/NYCC officers should have been doing from the moment Joe told us he brought the matter to their attention.
      Already the officers will be closing ranks at SBC and NYCC, and rolling out the tried and tested defence of ambiguity and evasion of the facts, via a long drawn out dialogue with whomsoever they wish to be labelled as “vexatious”.
      The perfect example of that strategy is to be found here

      As for pinning the blame on someone only when there has been a proper debate can anyone be expected to shoulder any blame, if indeed there is any blame to be carried.
      I do hope that this site will continue to give the ordinary people the chance to air their opinions in a truly democratic and apolitical manner, if only because “We all know what Whitby (and Scarborough) is like”.

      This is a golden opportunity for those at SBC to emerge from their culture of Secrecy, Dishonesty and Opacity, enter into the world of Open-ness, Honesty and Transparency.
      Lets hope that they grab it!

  489. If things are working correctly you should only be able to vote once Angela. Ill check to make sure.

  490. For Fox sake! 🙂

  491. There is nothing wrong, or even unusual about a publication been politicly biased, most British newspapers are politicly biased. You cannot get involved in a debate or blogg about local issues that does not involve or include politics.

    The effects of policies implemented by a Conservative led government are been felt here in Whitby, and I feel no shame or guilt in declaring that I oppose this government, I have always been a bit of a floating voter, I have voted Lib Dem in the past, but I would sooner eat glass now.

    The continualy repeated lie that the recession, debt crisis and banking crisis was all the fault of Gordon Brown is wearing very thin, the idea that “There is no alternative” is also not true, and the fact that local Conservative politicians claim that services will not suffer with one quarter of their budgets taken away is breathtaking nonsense.

    • The party political government of this country has been a charade for centuries [in fact, probably since its very inception] and it’s time people woke up to that. Oh no, hang on, there’s a good football match on…………

    • Are you speaking on behalf of the REAL WHITBY website and all its uses or is it just your opinion that it/we should be politically biased on here???

  492. Why drag SBC inti this?

    • Perhaps because an SBC Councillor has just confirmed to me that just one of the SBC venues invoiced over £30,000 on the ME TOO scheme. That is one helluva lot of swimming!

      Entrepreneurial private sector abuse of a sloppy scheme is one thing – institutionalised local government exploitation is quite another.

      That’s why Private Eye and the BBC have got involved. Of course, I am Mr Bad Guy – for daring to ask the questions. What a travesty.

  493. Will Private eye and the BBC be linking into this article Nigel ?

  494. Real Whitby as a website can not dictate to people which political party they should follow and endorse, that is for you guys to decide for yourself. Also all the things that help make Real Whitby a site that 9,500 individual people read in the last month are still here, on the site. Because we have elections coming up then the focus seems to be on that topic, but theres still a hell of a lot more to the site than political debate, and of course there could be much more too if people wanted to write articles for us I will publish them as previously promised.

  495. Frank L. Chalmers

    If he’d buy my a round or two, I would vote for him.

    • Who is he supposed to represent?

      • Frank L. Chalmers

        Certainly not us. Generosity, is not a word I would associate with the Town Hall (or as an associate of mine calls it – Fraggle Rock).
        I cannot say that I would ever vote for any of the Councillors. They are either strangely silent, or openly deceptive… you choose. I have yet to see one that is truly open and transparent, or forthcoming with the information they are asked for. Unless you can suggest otherwise.

  496. Rudolf Hess

    My post was in reply to “angela” above, who appears to suggest that Real Whitby is biased politicly, I was pointing out that it is not uncommon or even wrong for any newspaper or on-line publication to be biased – The Guardian for example is left of centre, the Daily Mail is extremely right wing, the Independent urged its readers to vote LD at the last election.

    The fact that Real Whitby openly allows anyone to put their point of view accross shows that it allows freedom of opinion, it allows people of any political persuassion to argue their case.

    For me personaly, I will argue the case against this coalition government, even though I used to ocassionaly vote LD, I am confined to just one political party now because there is only one opposition party in this country.

    • Frank L. Chalmers

      Your suggestion that there is only one “opposition party” is totally inacurate.

      As for political parties, why are you putting your faith in them anyway?

      Aren’t you able to decide things for yourself? Are you unable to determine your life, and how it should be run?

      We don’t need a big expensive Government.

      There was a time when “councils” were elected from within communities, and these were run at no cost to the community. They determined that any “issues” that the community couldn’t not sort itself, were taken care of.

      Government isn’t working. It doesn’t work. It needs replacing. Preferably with something transparent and honest. When you have politicians that are all born liars, and lawyers (one and the same thing), you don’t have Government, you have instead a system of deception, theft, and corruption.

      Think about it. Do some research, and learn for yourself.

  497. Frank L. Chalmers

    A scheme introduced by a Labour Government. Abused by the private sector… I’d like to know which Police Constables have been in touch with you, Nigel, to launch a fraud investigation.
    I have to say that it is my opinion that the tax payer has been defrauded here, and that clearly Constables should be investigating.

    I would also want to know why the elected members are so silent. We have Councillors passing the buck (‘refering the matter to the Head of Legal Services’ – Kenyon), and remaining silent.

    If these people don’t want us thinking they are liars, or hiding something, why are they so quiet and evasive when asked a few simple questions?

  498. Ivor The Engine

    Sat discussing this in the singiing kettle this morning. Strong rumours that Joe Plant is in this one upto his neck. Allegedly, his daughter in law is the owner of a business who have made big money from the scheme and planty has been representing them without declaring an interest.

  499. My daughter told me she had bought goggles with her vouchers at the Swimming Pool. Were the vouchers for item purchases too ?

  500. Do can’t be serious Nigel! I for one daint believe dat enybody at t council (SBC officers dat is) could be accused of filling dare boots. Dare is no incentive for it. Dare is a possibility dat sum bugger in t private sector has been at it doe.

    Its intersetin dat do seems to have loads of info but doos only prepared to attack the Council by name. Wot about de udders?

    I think dat doos showin di true culors and blind prejudice. Its loosin do all credibility.

  501. I don’t understand why Angela thinks there is extra cost to the taxpayer. I don’t think any of the people emailing or being emailed or asked to do some research, are paid by the hour. La belle Jane certainly isn’t..
    It’s good to know that for a lively political discussion, The Singing Kettle is he place to go.

  502. Carmen A Sturdy

    In this case there are just 6 simple and relevant questions.

    1. Who was entitled to use the vouchers?
    2. What services were they entitled to claim?
    3. Did service providers stick to these limits?
    4. Who determined what the answers to the above questions were?
    5. Can anyone identify persons or organisations that fraudulently ignored questions 1 or 2.
    6. Did the person or persons who decided who should receive the vouchers and what services they could be exchanged for, do so properly?

    A voucher user was entitled to receive what the voucher was worth in terms of service. A service provider, private or public, was entitled to receive the value of the service they properly provided under the scheme.

    It does seem to be true that the vouchers were poorly targeted with inadequate use or value limits set. Just as human nature determines, some people took things to the limit. The big question is does anyone know for certain who went above the limits.

    As far as direct criticism of SBC is concerned for providing the alleged £30000 of services, all I would say is, can you imagine the fuss if some poor SBC worker had refused to provide a service that a voucher holder was perfectly entitled to receive in return for a voucher.

    We now seem to be seeking to apportion blame and there is an obvious move to try and make as much muck as possible stick to SBC.

    It’s a sad fact that most of the electorate haven’t a clue about which services are provided by which of the three (or four if you count the National Park) local authorities that serve Whitby and its environs.

    I believe, however, that a few people cynically use this gap in the general knowledge of the public to launch attacks knowing that, in ignorance, the blame will be attributed in almost every case to SBC.

    Put simply, there are a one or two people who seek to blame SBC for everything and anything. I read that Daryl seems to be on to this.

    I am no lover of SBC (far from it) but from a moral point of view it is deplorable to attack Officials as has happened frequently in the past. These people are unable to publicly defend themselves by engaging in public slanging matches.

    More importantly, from a strategic point of view, people who continuously snipe become associated with an entrenched position and lose credibility and support. If in doubt look at Mary Whitehouse.

    • Frank L. Chalmers

      “it is deplorable to attack Officials as has happened frequently in the past”

      You are joking aren’t you?

      Some officials at SBC missed a £20million overspend. Do you think that was an accident?

      Some officials at SBC don’t put “penalty clauses” into contracts, which then suspiciously cost a lot more than they should. Do you think this is an accident?

      Perhaps they are just incompetent down at SBC. I don’t think they are.

      Some officials at SBC suggested that there was no dredging going on, and that the collapse of the harbour wall was just something that happened, all by itself. No suggestion that the collapse was because the dredger had removed most of the river bed next to it.

      There are the lies, the obvious corruption, and so on.

      An associate of mine suggests there are missing artworks from the Town Hall. We are still paying insurance premiums on them. Now who do you think we should ask about this? Perhaps we could ask the Pope. He might know. Or better, perhaps we should ask the “Officials”. But, they don’t answer when they are asked. Are you able to suggest why that is? Could they be hiding something, or are they only able to speak Urdu?

      As for it being just SBC, you are wrong. It seems to be SBC, NYCC, UK.Gov, and so on. Anything public sector, and anything private sector, preying on Public Sector.

      That’s my two cents.

    • Many contributors seem to be missing the point here. The ‘Related Reading’ links, below the main story, answer most of your questions. The scheme offered one hour’s activity per voucher (no fixed monetary value) – – *The purpose of the scheme was to widen access to community activities and Liz Dent, one of the Extended Services in Schools coordinators has received many reports from families praising the scheme. “Families have reported that their children have taken part in sports and arts activities, adventure games, swimming, golf, soccer, horse riding, cooking and dance,” said Liz.*

      That is all very commendable, but the point is that vouchers were accepted not only for activities, but for GOODS. School governors have confirmed that these included expensive items (in the £100 range). Glenn can confirm his own daughter’s experience. A personal friend of mine stood next-in-line and watched a £90 ceramic pot being urged upon an unaccompanied child, with assurances that it was absolutely okay. Tony Mok has stated “It has come to my notice that pupils/families not from East Whitby have somehow obtained East Whitby School vouchers and are using them fraudulently.” Talk to the kids. It is widely known that photocopied vouchers have been ‘traded’ and that goods have been sold on eBay.

      You have framed the questions, Carmen, while I have been hunting down the answers. And you can see for yourself the evasion I come up against, time and time again. The truth is that the design of the system was astonishingly insecure. Some of my sources are suggesting that that was deliberate – is, in fact, a commonplace when huge sums are involved. (Perhaps you remember the 2005 Highpoint Rendel fiasco?) Highly-trained people on those kind of salaries are just not that incompetent. Fortunately (for them) very few people are paying any attention.

      It is particularly suspicious when businesses very close to the ‘inside-track’ have gone overboard on ‘filling their boots’. You need to dig a little deeper.

  503. ‘Do some research for yourself’ isnt that the new buzz phrase on here? Try doing some – from outside the box! Whilst your ‘public servants’ are answering FOI request after FOI request, they are not doing the proper work YOU want them to!! Get it yet?? Read the FOI guidelines…you can find them on the ICO website.
    I found the parts about obsessive FOI requests and ‘public interest tests’ most interesting!
    They may not be paid by the hour, but as I say, time is money!!!!
    Im not defending etc any of them for anything, I have no interest in politics whatsoever, except when ‘Public Servants’, LOL, are not doing the work I want them to do because some people like to use them as ‘personal’ servants instead!!

    • Frank L. Chalmers

      Off the deep end!

      PUBLIC SERVANTS do not miss overspends on sea defenses because of FOI requests.

      PUBLIC SERVANTS do not recieve golden handshakes (John Treble), because of FOI requests.

      PUBLIC SERVANTS do not lie about when and where the dredger was operating before a sea wall collapse, because of FOI requests

      PUBLIC SERVANTS do not get caught lying multiple times, about having permissionto dig through and desecrate a site of great archeological interest, because of FOI requests.

      PUBLIC SERVANTS do not get paid upwards of £40k a year to help TESCOS get a juicy deal in Scarborough, when the public want an ASDA, because of FOI requests.

      You getting the picture yet, or as has already been asked of others here, are you getting paid to defend SBC?

  504. Frank

    As a point of interest do you know anything about penalty clauses in contracts and in particular that impact they have on costs.

    Companies price penalty clauses into contracts, and its not cheap, its common practice. Do you believe that they come for free.

    • Frank L. Chalmers

      As a matter of fact I do.

      I used to review contracts for my old employer.

      The penalty clauses I was refering to, are the ones that are strangely absent from any and all SBC contracts to do with large amounts of public money. Take the Sea Wall defences contract in Scarborough for example. No penalty clause, and a £20+million overspend that John Riby “missed”…

      Obviously, he was busy having a coffee break when he missed that one.

  505. Frank L Charmers

    “Your suggestion that there is only one “opposition party” is totally inacurate.”

    The coalition government is a Conservative / Lib Dem administration, therefore Labour are the only realistic opposition, there just is no other, the SNP as a Scottish party or the DUP as an Northern Irish party or the Greens with a single MP cannot possibly be effective opposition could they.

    “As for political parties, why are you putting your faith in them anyway?”

    Because thats all we have got, there isent anything else, politicians and political parties run things, that how the system works, there is a political party for everyone.

    “Aren’t you able to decide things for yourself? Are you unable to determine your life, and how it should be run?”

    Yes – of course I decide things for myself, I have decided that I will oppose this coalition government, I have not been told to oppose it, I made my own mind up, I have the same choices that you have, you can support or oppose the government.

    I dont realy understand where you are coming from

  506. I think two of them are sat on Foxy’s Knee

  507. The vouchers were available to anyone that applied. This wasn’t the case when they were first intorduced, back then they were only for those entitled to free school meals. The system has been completely abused. I note the case mentioend above of the large vase and I am aware of parents that have taken children to paint pottery every week and chosen the largest, most expensive item on the list, simply because they could. At first you could book a whole block of swimming lessons with one voucher, that’s over £40 worth!! And then half of them weren’t turning up for the lessons! There is no way that the scheme could keep running like that. People were greedy but who wouldn’t be, nowadays I can’t afford to send my children horse riding, swimming etc every week and I have a decent wage coming in.

  508. I would like to see the evidence on which you base these points.

    If you actually read my posts instead of jumping ‘off the deep end’ you will see that I have actually answered your question already
    ‘Im not defending etc any of them for anything, I have no interest in politics whatsoever,’

    Perhaps Nigel can send in an FOI request to ask how much FOI requests cost SBC and in fact YOU the taxpayer?? But, I suspect he wont because he wouldnt want you to hear the answer! Or perhaps he is too busy drowning in ‘the deep end’ LOLOLOL

    Until he does, I will stop spamming on this thread.

    • Frank L. Chalmers

      You don’t have a “vested interest” do you? Or, do you have someone close that should have “declared” a vested interest?

      I’m all ears.

  509. ‘Put simply, there are a one or two people who seek to blame SBC for everything and anything. I read that Daryl seems to be on to this.
    I am no lover of SBC (far from it) but from a moral point of view it is deplorable to attack Officials as has happened frequently in the past. These people are unable to publicly defend themselves by engaging in public slanging matches.
    More importantly, from a strategic point of view, people who continuously snipe become associated with an entrenched position and lose credibility and support. If in doubt look at Mary Whitehouse. ‘

    I couldnt agree with you more! But then, we all know deep down SBC are to blame for everything ~ahem~ although I have yet to see any concrete evidence for any of it.

    • Frank L. Chalmers

      If you weren’t so involved with them, then you might have a sense of objectivity. Allegedly.

      “More importantly, from a strategic point of view, people who continuously snipe become associated with an entrenched position and lose credibility and support”

      Isn’t this just what you are doing? You’re sniping from the comfort and “anonimity” of a computer screen. Except it’s not hard to work out who you really are….

  510. Angela, FOIs don’t cost the taxpayer anything, all it does is maybe, oblige a Public Servant to work through his coffee break once in a while. They are the only means we the taxpayers have of controlling the excesses of our ‘Servants”

  511. Until he does, I will stop spamming on this thread.

  512. I’m utterly amazed at the extent of the accusatory, probably libelous comments that are thrown in here. Many of them are clearly made in complete ignorance of the real facts.

    Others expound theories that do no more than show their prejudices and ignorance. Take just about everything that Frank L states as an example. If this is allowed to continue the site will loose any credibility it might have had.

    • Frank L. Chalmers

      Ignorance? Where is the ignorance? What credentials do you have that allow you to be so “informed”?

      You aren’t on the pay roll of John Q. Taxpayer are you?

      You sound like you are.

  513. Well, rhajibuhga it seems that you’re another member of the brains trust on here that makes stupid statements. The site is full of them. If you think that FOI requests cost nothing it demonstrates the value of anything else you have to say. You’re obviously not much of a thinker.


  514. Well Frank,

    I don’t have any vested interests or any connections, financial, family socially, professionally or otherwise, with this debacle or any of the others you carp on about. I am merely a fair minded individual who is interested in justice above all else.

    All your posts are nothing more than bile filled rants. They demonstrate pure prejudice and little in the way of clear facts. Like many others you seem not to appreciate that such rants merely get you flagged as a time waste.

    If I could offer a little advice it would be to pick a subject you know something about then research the facts properly. If you then find this corruption you believe exists you should take it to the police.

    Love Daryl

  515. Frank,

    I think you show that you don’t understand penalty contracts by what you say about overspends.

    Do you know about managing risk and about pricing for risk? Well, contractors if faced with penalty clauses, evaluate the risk and then put a cost on it. This invariably inflates the cost.

    Any contract involving tides, weather and unknown issues such as the contracts you refer to would contain massive risk and would have attracted a much larger estimate and thus a much larger overspend.

    Penalty clauses cannot control overspend.

    • Frank L. Chalmers

      So, Cliff, you are a contractual expert are you?

      Please share with us your credentials. They wouldn’t have been obtained prior, or during your tenure at a Local Authority would they?

  516. Good morning Cliff, no not brains trust , more The Weakest Link standard.
    But you seem to be better informed than most of us, as to the workings of local government, maybe you could elucidate us on the cost of an FOI, no need to go into details, just the bottom line. Whatever it is, we can sure it is less than all the money going down the plughole of scams and malpractice . It maybe that some of the statements made on this site are uniformed, (maybe because we dont put in enough FOIs) that doesn’t give you licence to make derogatory remarks about the contributors. Anyway, just look at the ratings, you are the weakest link, goodbye

  517. I hope the tories get a real pasteing in the may elections infact i hope the lot get the boot this goverment stink and our mp who lives on coast and doesnt back the coastgurds should be ashamed of himself if it had been a farming problem he would have been falling over himself shocking to say the least.


  518. I am not aware of any problems around upper Flowergate or any street drinking taking place. If we receive any complaints or observe any such practice then we would deal with the issue.

    However at this point it is worth explaining the law. Yes Whitby Town has a desginated public place order which in effect gives power to the police to confiscate alcohol from persons consuming alcohol in this area. There are exemptions such as where the exterior of a premise has a premises license for a particular area e.g seating area outside a public house. There is no actual offence until someone refuses to surrender their alcohol. It is purely an order to give the police power to confiscate.

    In cases where we have large numbers or persons drinking then we make operational decisions as to whether to send in officers to use the power based on number of complaints if there is a risk of violence or anti social behaviour etc..

    What I will say that in such circumstances I would always look to the licensed premises to resolve the problem and ensure that they do not allow this to happen. If their customers are allowed to leave premises and are causing increased anti social behaviour then the license could be reviewed under licensing legislation. In addition I would not consider it good for business to serve customers allow them to go outside then find the police have confiscated the drink. I do not think that the customers would be happy especially when they maybe a visitor to the town and not aware of the order that is in place.

  519. My final and last word on this (as the actual topic on this thread is ‘Extended Schools, Extended Profits’ is it doesnt take many brain cells to work out how much an FOI costs. Look at the salaries quoted on SBC website, divide that into hours, and using an EDUCATED guess as to how many hours it would take to answer some of the bewildering FOI’s sent through. Then use this sum:
    office space
    web/email dev
    etc etc etc and you have the answer. This all comes out of their budget for doing their job. The money YOU pay them for completing their job e.g providing the services YOU want. But the real answer is not in monetary form – it is those hours taken fathoming out your way out of the red tape to get to the answer that is the REAL cost the the taxpayer.

    While they are answering all of these enquiries they are not doing what YOU want them to! SO when they are not doing the things you xpect them to in their role..have a think……

    As an admin I think this debate has gone far enough off topic and I will have to consider cutting it short to anything on topic. I wouldnt want to be talk of the town as well as the singing kettle LOL 😉

  520. No Angela, whilst they are answering all of these enquiries, they ARE doing what we want them to.
    I wouldn’t know about the Singing Kettle, never been there since the 1950s

  521. Frank

    I have nothing to do with SBC…I live so far away from Whitby I couldnt conceiveably work there!

    I do have contractual expertise though and the contracts that SBC issue to contractors should have spending limits on them and could/should not be allowed to be changed without SBC’s say so.

    The internet is full of anonymity..everyone knows that and it cannot be avoided..personally I like to keep my international woman of mystery status in tact LOL 😉

  522. Probably the funniest to date. We warned Goodwill that coastguard cuts were a bad idea but he just wouldnt listen.

  523. Fantastic: another gem from Codhead!

  524. I stayed in Whitby with my husband twice – we´re brazilians and we´re amazed with the snow! Great photos! We wish to see this one day in Whitiby! 🙂

  525. Frank L. Chalmers

    SBC saying “sorry” for anything?

    I must be dreaming.

  526. This is very disappointing; is it truly not possible to help the less well-off, without greed being the inevitable consequence?

  527. Public service or public power
    Scarborough Borough Council’s election seems to be bringing out the worst in Whitby people. People clinging to power because it gives them their raison d’etre, people jockeying for power because they believe everyone else is incompetent and people eschewing power because they won’t accept the responsibility. So where is the public service in all of this? Is it just a myth – or is it all about Me Too?

  528. Can we have some facts or accusations? “lead us not into temptation”
    No doubt an excellent scheme brought in by the last government. Abused by people who really should have known better.

    James 1: 13-14 says, “When tempted, no one should say, ‘God is tempting me.’ For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.” We are always ready to shift the blame. If we cannot blame God for temptation, we will say his sin is a sickness so as not to face the judgment. Sin is not a sickness, but a moral failure and we will have to face judgment. We may also blame others or our circumstances, which are not the cause of sin either.
    Sin comes from within us. It comes from dwelling on temptations rather than driving temptations from our minds.
    But don’t worry, we will forgive you, whoever you are, just be honest.

  529. A nice article, except that you are quoting “The Boxer”. Sorry to be a nerd.
    I was saddened to see your last sentence: “Meanwhile, the guilty are compounding their problems daily, by spewing forth lies and accusations. Still, a man believes what he wants to believe and disregards the threats.”
    Does this mean that there are indeed people in Whitby have something to hide? I think we should be told.

  530. Another gem Codhead!

    I can just envisage the audience at the OAT singing along to the chorus of the Tremeloes 1967 hit,

    Silence is golden, but my eyes can see!

    Not arf, pop-pickers!

  531. The simple fact is that if a scheme, of any type, is open to exploitation then there are the unscrupulous that will ALWAYS take advantage of it. Thus it was ever so. On the face of it this appears to be a well-intentioned but badly thought through idea. All of the facts and names of those involved/responsible need to be brought into the public domain to explain their actions.

  532. It really is a tough call and I had this conversation when I met with Nigel recently, with regards to who is to blame and who has acted wrongly ? Does the blame lay with NYCC for designing a non means tested system that was so wide open to abuse. Or does blame lie with the providers who allegedly had it large at the tax payers expense, or does the blame lie with parents who used the system. My gut feeling based on my own opinions is that NYCC should take the majority of the blame. If what I have read and been told is true they set up a system which had no way of means testing for the recipients, therefore regardless of your income or personal wealth your children got free passes for activities (Real Whitby has seen details of emails suggesting that the familiy members of millionaire lottery winners got the vouchers, and also children of families with 70 grand a year incomes). Worse still no set value appears to have been put on the vouchers, which if correct led to some service providers playing the system to their advantage. That brings us to the service providers. Were they wrong to take advantage ? Well yes of course they were, but in this day and age of government cuts, recession, etc etc, who can blame a frightened business man for wanting to keep the bank manager of his back ? Morally its wrong, but morals went out the window a lot of years ago now for many business people. Then there is the parents. Real Whitby has seen emails detailing how some parents bought season tickets for swimming lessons, and some even bought swimming costumes for the next five years in various sizes for their children, all off one voucher. Can you blame them for doing this ? Also we have seen emails about lottery winners getting the vouchers despite not needing them. Should these families have sent the vouchers back to the schools and highlighted the fact that they dosnt actually need them. Did these families realise that by accepting the vouchers they were taking funds away from the deprived children the scheme was actually aimed at.

    I know a lot of people will read these comments, and wonder what I’m going on about. But amongst you are the very people Im talking about. Some of you are high income families who took the vouchers and used them. So why not have your say here rather than through unpublished anonymous emails. Why did you take the vouchers when you knew you didn’t need them ?

  533. Loadsamoney?

    POTS of it – at Money Mintsters!

  534. In my opinion public service would increasingly be better described as disservice, and not just in Scarborough/Whitby. Unfortunately there appears to exist a common mindset throughout Local Government across the UK where ‘management knows best’, and the higher the management the worse their attitude. As for Central Government, the least said the better.
    Question nothing, or become ostracised/victimised/bullied by the very people that are allegedly accountable.
    The proliferation of Blogs and Websites that highlight the constant shortcomings of self-serving ‘public servants’ is to be welcomed. How else do we mere mortals expose their all too frequent failings?

  535. When a scheme is open to all with no limits, in this day and age 99.9% of people will take it. THAT is the truth.

  536. @Bob Turner
    ” Unfortunately there appears to exist a common mindset throughout Local Government across the UK where ‘management knows best’, and the higher the management the worse their attitude.”
    That is precisely why we need a new broom to sweep through the Town Hall and to clear out some of the council officers sitting on enormous salaries and getting consultants in to do their jobs.
    I fail to understand how councillors can consider they are doing their civic duty correctly when they allow such squalid overspending. Or does some of the overspend flow back?

  537. There are no double standards on this matter. Goths have to and do abide to the rules of the public house along with the rest of the world. I would also like to point out that there is no trouble from the goths (even when they did drink on the street) unlike the problems that arise on a regatta weekend or folk week. (Which does seem to have a dress code of white t shirt and tin of lager in hand, shortly followed by rubished dumped on the floor or in the sea, at least the goths are clean and respectful).

  538. Goths used to drink on the street in Flowergate, because the two pubs concerned welcome Goths every year, this is no longer a problem because the police put a stop to Goths drinking outside these pubs 2 years ago. Goths never cause fuss, cause fights, make lots of mess, they just parade about, all ages together having a great time in a lovely place. So please leave them alone, they are only around for a couple of times each year and they do bring cash to the town.

  539. Well said Lynda and Ivy. I love the goths and Whitby would be a much poorer place without them (and not just in terms of money).

  540. How can this be right ?

    • A large part of the difference between the Whitby and the Scarborough figures is made up of the parish Precept – Whitby Town (Parish) Council sets a Precept of around £230,000, the vast majority of which is ‘absorbed’ by administrative costs – staff, utilities, IT, websites, stationery, etc. Two full-time Clerks generate reams of paperwork for the Council and a whole bunch of unnecessary Committees.

      Bureaucracy for the sake of bureaucracy – the only beneficiaries are the staff.

  541. Local government accounts for about 27% of UK public spending. A large proportion of this is funded through central government allocations on the basis of a complex formula which determines each authority’s expenditure level. This formula is supposed to assess the basic expenditure needs of local authorities, by combining estimates of the ‘unit costs’ of the services for which each authority is responsible with estimates of the level of provision required for each service.

    Scant weight is obviously given to indices of economic deprivation in the calculations. Thus deprived areas are often assessed to have a much lower need for expenditure per head than much more affluent areas.

    The formulae used have consistently failed to capture the key indicators of need with London boroughs gaining considerably, I believe, from the heavy weighting attached to population density, housing characteristics, etc.. So generous have the grants to London Boroughs been at times in the past that certain of these Boroughs have been in a position where they could have set local Council Tax levels at zero.

    In a nutshell that is why there is so much variation.

    Insofar as the local council tax level is concerned, you may note that carborough which is the lowest has no Parish Council to fund.

    If the residents of Whitby are happy to fund a Parish Council that has no powers and does little beyond stirring the shit with SBC and providing copy for the Whitby Gazette then they must pay the extra.

  542. Who are The Goths Aloud? A spin-off from Girls Aloud?

  543. I need my 20 cars..but they all have to be garaged… 😉

  544. Grange, why shouldn’t people enjoy their alcoholic beverages in a public place where they can enjoy the air and Whitby’s beautiful scenery? Fight for your rights!



    Councillor Tom Fox – Leader – Scarborough Borough Council


    As a keen follower of local politics, I read with great interest the article appearing on the Scarborough Evening News web-site under the title “Parties launch local campaign” (published on Tuesday 19 April 2011 09:30).

    Here is the link, for your convenience of reference:

    My attention was taken by remarks attributed to your good self:

    “We have worked hard to get to grips with the costs of delivering services whilst maintaining front line services. We have done this through a common sense approach to decision making, if money is not available then it cannot be spent. We will continue with that approach whilst continuing to work with the public to ensure the council is totally open and transparent in all it does.”

    This latter remark struck me as being hyperbolic in the extreme – “continuing to work with the public to ensure the council is totally open and transparent in all it does”.

    Nevertheless, I will try to take you at your word.

    I hope you will not disappoint me.

    I asked your Head of Tourism & Culture, Brian Bennett, on 1st April 2011, to offer me a comprehensive statement regarding SBC’s involvement in the NYCC ‘Extended Schools “Me Too!” voucher scheme’.

    Brian confirmed that SBC facilities participated in the “Me Too!” voucher scheme and that some vouchers were exchanged for goods such as swimming goggles. He does not, he states, consider goods such as swimming goggles, as being of considerable value. Members of the public have reported extensive retail exploitation of the voucher scheme at SBC outlets, far in excess of Brian’s claims.

    In an email dated 6th April 2011, I asked Brian for “a complete accounting of all vouchers/invoices for all SBC venues involved in the scheme by return and in any event not later than close-of-play on Friday 8th April 2011.”

    Brian responded by stating “I acknowledge the further email from you and will respond within the next few days.”

    On the 15th April 2011 – nine days later – I found it necessary to again email Brian with a gentle reminder.

    Alas, the information is still not forthcoming. It is now 19th April – eighteen days after my initial enquiry – and still no information has been provided.

    I wonder, Tom, how you can reconcile this series of events with your claim that you are “continuing to work with the public to ensure the council is totally open and transparent in all it does”?

    I might add that I find Brian’s reluctance to ‘work with the public to ensure the Council is totally open and transparent’, etc, deeply disturbing.

    He is, after all, a Head of Service – Tourism & Culture, and now with the added responsibility for Scarborough and Whitby Harbours. It is not clear to me how Brian’s rather meagre qualifications – DipISRM (which I discover signifies a Diploma from the Institute of Sport and Remedial Massage) have prepared him for the highest level of public service in the aforementioned areas of responsibility – unless, as has been suggested by more than one member of the public, massage expertise is essential in the preparation of figures for release into the public domain.

    But enough of this light-hearted banter, Tom. Would you please ensure that your Head of Tourism & Culture complies with my request for “a complete accounting of all vouchers/invoices for all SBC venues involved in the scheme by return and in any event not later than close-of-play on Friday 8th April 2011”, as he has already stated he would, ‘within a few days’?

    That would go some way towards convincing the electorate that you are “continuing to work with the public to ensure the council is totally open and transparent in all it does”?

    Thank you.

    And kind regards,


  546. The Empire Strikes Back!

    —– Original Message —–
    From: “Cllr.Tom Fox”
    To: Nigel
    Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:58 PM
    Subject: Your e-mail re correspondence to Brian Bennett

    Please note that I am out of the office at present but your e-mail has been forwarded and received and I have initiated enquiries into the matters you raise.

    I will get back to you in due course.

    Yours sincerely,

    Tom fox
    —– Original Message —–
    From: Nigel
    To: ; Nigel
    Cc: ; Laurence Durnan ; ; Norman Murphy ; Dilys Cluer ; BRIAN SIMPSON ; Emma Spencer ; GLENN KILPATRICK ; ; ; NEVILLE THURLBECK (News of the World); DANIEL SANDERSON ; Peter Lugg (BBC)
    Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:29 PM
    Subject: Re: AN OPEN LETTER (and transparent)

    Councillor Tom Fox – Leader – Scarborough Borough Council


    Thank you so much for your email, acknowledging mine of 11:32am on Tuesday 19th April 2011.

    I am gratified to learn that you have initiated enquiries into the matters I have raised and I look forward to hearing from you in great detail in due course. I trust I will not have too long to wait.

    Meanwhile, if I might draw your attention to a couple of points . . .

    Firstly, it is my preference to be addressed by my given name – ‘Nigel’. I am a human being, not a legal personality, and I find it deeply offensive to be addressed as ‘Mr Ward’ or ‘Mr Nigel Ward’. Please accept my cordial invitation to address me as ‘Nigel’. Thank you, Tom.

    Secondly, it is ‘best practice’ to retain all previous emails in any given ‘thread’ within the body of each subsequent email. That gives all readers a convenient overview of the correspondence thus far. On this occasion, I have, by way of example, re-inserted the earlier emails, for your own convenience of reference.

    Thank you again for initiating enquiries – and allow me to take this opportunity to wish you well in the forthcoming election.

    Yours, with kind regards,


  547. It will take a heavier weight than Eric Pickles to crack the nuts at SBC!

  548. I was always taught as good manners that you should address people you dont know as Mr, Mrs, Miss (etc) So and So until they invite you to call them by their christian name..but maybe im just an old fashioned gal…..

  549. People can call me anything they like, as long as they dont call me too early!

  550. Firstly, it is my preference to be addressed by my given name – ‘Nigel’. I am a human being, not a legal personality, and I find it deeply offensive to be addressed as ‘Mr Ward’ or ‘Mr Nigel Ward’. Please accept my cordial invitation to address me as ‘Nigel’. Thank you, Tom.

    This is possibly the most pathetic outburst i have ever read, you are having a right pop at someone for calling you Mr Ward!!!!!!

    What do you do when you receive a letter or bill off someone addressing you as Mr Ward??? do you rip it up in anger, whilst shouting “DONT CALL ME MR WARD, IM A PERSON!!!!!!!!!”


  551. Get rid of Me Too

    People can’t take advantage

    Saves tax-payers money



  552. this article is wrong in part and this is the Police Statement on the Issue:

    I can confirm that Whitby Police have received a complaint of a breach of 106 of The Representation of the People Act. The matter is being investigated and we have several lines of enquiry to follow. However I can state at this time that the investigation is not centred around candidates in the West Cliff Ward and there is no suspect at this moment.

    I can also confirm that there is no Police Investigation at this time into the ‘Me Too’ vouchers.

    • So which statement is true, inspector? The one above – or the one below?

      May 2, 2011 – 4:27 pm

      Whitby police have confirmed that an investigation is being “progressed” into a conservative candidate for the upcoming Scarborough Borough Council election for the Whitby West Cliff ward. Real Whitby now understands that “witness statements have been taken” and Whitby Police “intend to interview another person” about the matter.

      I think we should be told . . .

  553. The response from Insp Grange reveals that the WHITBY’S OWN ‘WOOLASGATE’ article is nothing more than speculation. Poor quality information appears to be a continuous thread in the postings on here, particularly about these topics.

    Dont get me wrong. I’m just as incensed about the issues as anyone and there may be some truth in what been said in the article but I just believe that, in going of half cock, the writer looses credibility. What the outcome may be remains to be seen but each of the points raised were refuted by Insp Grange with the exception that the Police have received a complaint of a breach of 106 of The Representation of the People Act.

    My view is that if this complaint is made in the same way and with same degree of accuracy and objectivity that many of the accusations that fly around on this site are concerned it will not get far.


    What a shame that the site has already gained a reputation that immediately creates such feelings.

    Please don’t forget the absolute need for honesty, fairness and credibility.

  554. Just a quick one to set a few records straight. Real Whitby as a website aims to give the people of Whitby a voice they would otherwise not have. The fact the site is open to, and actively encourages comments, even from the towns chief inspector is testament to that. If you want stories that don’t push the boundaries, then perhaps the Gazette site is the place for you.

    With regards to this particular story. The information I have been given is as follows : Derogatory comments/rumours of a severe nature have been spread around town regarding one candidate of the upcoming election, that person has lodged a complaint with the police, the council, and the elections standards board. At least 2 current councillors say that they know who is spreading the rumours having personally witnessed the person doing so, and I am led to believe they have been to the police station to pass on what they know. I am told that the person they suggest is spreading the rumours is a candidate in the west cliff ward.

    How I see things at the present time is, one or other party is not telling the truth. No doubt the truth will out in the long run.

    If this information is incorrect and if anybody feels the article is breaching any laws then they may contact me to ask for the offending information to be removed from the site. At the current time I have had no official complaint about the article. As always, my contact details are on the sites contact page.

  555. A very fair comment by admin.
    Should stories and claims be exaggerated then the site caters for comments from ANYBODY, inc the local police inspector.
    It is not the papers/sites reputation at stake, what is at stake it is the reputation of the person who posts inaccurate or wildly exaggerated claims/stories.
    I also heard that it involved a candidate from a particular ward.
    If the local Police Inspector takes time out to visit this site and says otherwise then it’s either a fact, fiction or the Inspector is keeping his cards close to his chest.
    Daryl has a very valid point, but until these matters are concluded then the word of the person making the claims is just as valid as the local police inspectors.

  556. Well said Tom; I just hope people can see beyond their entrenched voting patterns and think about the issues, not just taking the easy option.

  557. I hope the departure of the harbour master does not throw the viabilty of Bothams Pie Shop into doubt.
    Without dedicated pie eaters to promote the fare of Bothams, the future could be uncertain for Bothams.
    I urge local pie eaters to rally round and fill the huge gap that may be created when the harbour master leaves.
    Remember, we nearly lost another local bakery, Woodheads, recently.
    Dont let it happen to Bothams!

    “Botham’s Bakeries, who are a long-established Whitby firm… they have a few branches around the place, but they’ve won awards for their pork pies. The local one for us is at the bottom of our road, and I spend far too much time and money in there!”
    Capt Martin Willis, 11th Dec 2009.

    I cant argue with that one Martin, without any doubt, PORKY PIES appear to be the staple diet of any SBC officer!

  558. ‘Whitby’s economic plight’ and arguing for increased ‘benefits’.

    The two don’t go together. Cut benefit, this forces people into jobs and thus economic activity is increased


  559. It is not about increasing benefits to people who do not want to work. It is about not slashing benefits available to those who do work, or those who genuinely cannot work. Many family’s in this are having to bring up children on a shoe string, children are our future.
    Ok, so what, we were all brought up on a shoe string, but that was 50 odd years ago and I’m sure we would not have wanted to be brought up as children were 50 years before that.
    In real terms this country is wealthy. This town is loosing it’s sustainability due to the lack of positive action by SBC in attracting business into the town.
    This is already beginning to show. When you make cuts you make them to the towns / population that matters less.
    Maternity ward, palliative care, education, police cells, court room, condition of infrastructure, roads, general maintenance and upkeep………………
    Lets keep this thread on the right track.

  560. If the site says ‘the police say this’ and the ‘Inspector says another’ who is right? Seems pretty clear to me!!
    Whoever is writing these articles needs to be very very careful in the future or they could get into serious trouble, and the site for publishing them? Well, who knows??? A lot of journalists are freelance, but it is always the paper who gets done for publishing dodgy articles, so I dont think hiding behind the ‘public domain’ will save you…..after all you dont name the person writing these articles, but to choose to say ‘Real Whitby says…’

  561. Angela

    I’m sure you’ll agree that people who post comments must recognise certain truths. Their objectives in posting comments will, of course, vary. Some will wish to provoke thought and stimulate considered debate. Others will merely want a rant. Some using the second approach will wish to achieve the first. The truth is that, unless the argument displays evidence of research, truth and logic and a complete absence of prejudice, people will discount it as a rant anyway.

    If anyone wishes to achieve anything be it influencing, informing or changing material things they must first be credible.

    What a pity that this site is publishing so much that has a hollow ring to it.


  562. Tom I agree wholeheartedly with the list of issues you have raised now and in the past and would like to change things and influence them as much as you, However, as I’m sure you know, 90% of what you complain about above is totally outside of the sphere of influence of Scarborough Borough Council.

    Labour, Conservative or Libdem makes absolutely no difference. I maintain that once you stray from areas that are relevant or serious you weaken your chances of achieving anything worthwhile. A list such as above, when addressed to SBC, merely offers them the opportunity to declare it outside their powers of influence and sideline your queries.

    Much more success will be achieved by directing the really serious issues to the proper people. Otherwise your complaint will be read as simply the comments of someone prejudiced against SBC.

    There are some significant problems with the way SBC is set up that lead directly to the situation that Whitby finds itself in. These go unrecognised and their significance not understood. I hope, in time, to raise these but the time must be right as I don’t want to start a long slow campaign that will killed off early.

  563. 50 odd years ago…speak for yourself lol…

  564. 11 thumbs what a surprise, grow up people! Im sure if someone published fibby wibb wibbs, made up stories or furnished half truths about you you would want to sue their a$$es off…I know I would do so! I did love this site at one time, but its getting more and more about constantly bashing SBC about absolutely everythiiiing, even stuff which is nothing about them *yawwwnnnnnn*
    If this site continues to publish stories which are incorrect it is going to get in serious trouble and is getting a reputation already if the police are monitoring it and we wouldnt want Glenn to get in trouble now would we??

    You wonder why no-one listens to you……

  565. Cliff Street and Angela

    I live and have businesses in the West Cliff Ward.
    This Ward has two Councilors, Independent Cllr Mike Ward and Cons Cllr Joe Plant. Please read the two emails they sent to Cllr Tom Fox leader of the Conservative group and Hilary Jones Strategic Director of SBC.
    Everything I do is researched and well documented, everything I post is SBC’s responsibility and for the benefit of residents and visitors.
    I also note today 26/04 that it was campaigner Nigel Ward who received a letter of thanks from Whitby Town Council for a continuous battle in trying to get SBC to recognise that the Whitby Lighthouse’s are listed and are in a desperate state of repair. SBC barely know they exist, that’s a fact.

    OK, so where were the councilors responsible for Whitby Piers and lighthouses and the lack of investment from the past 10 years. SBC do not even maintain anything let alone introduce anything new.

    From: “Cllr.Joe Plant”
    Date: 21 April 2011 14:32:11 GMT+01:00
    Subject: Re: West Cliff – maintenance issues

    Cllr Plant to Cllr Mike Ward (Whitby West Cliff)
    Hi Mike.

    I totally agree with what you are saying and Mr Brodrick thank you for
    bringing these issues to our attention.

    Mike as you know we both have brought these issues from Mr Brodrick to
    the table a few times. We have also walked the area a couple of times
    with officers so we all know what the situation is.

    I also agree we deserve criticsm and the things that were promised would
    be done still needs to be done.


    Please can you give us an update of where things are now and can you
    assure us all that the issues Mr Brodrick has raised are dealt with

    Regards to all.

    Joe Plant

    Cllr Joe Plant
    St Fillans
    White Point Avenue
    North Yorkshire
    YO21 3JG

    tel: 01947 821159
    mob: 07780 883507
    web site:

    “Mike Ward” 21/04/11 8:11 AM >>>
    Joe,once again we are being informed of the disgraceful state of parts
    of our Ward by at least one resident if not many many more as well as
    tourists.I get complaints every time I go down on to the Prom.

    Hopefully a few e-mails to officers are in order and no matter who is
    elected going forward things must change.
    I am ashamed to say I have achieved very little if anything in the areas
    being highlighted now.I also feel I have been let down.
    We are all deserving of some criticism even given the lack of
    monies.Some of the issues we are talking about would cost very little
    but rather some concrete,bricks,tar,paint and a few hours work.

    We are a key tourist area and some some basic care/maintenance (if not
    more !) is needed.

    Some issues on the West Pier (seating & lighting) are now being
    addressed(John).I have also asked that all the damaged seating is
    removed asap.

    The kicking board at the top of the Lighthouse is being looked at
    (Hilary et al) and I am awaiting her response.Could be a very simple but
    none the less urgent job.

    The area around the old Victorian toilet block on the Prom has been a
    disgrace and an eyesore for all the time I have been on the Council.
    I had hoped this year with the takeover of the building by the RNLI
    things might improve but this deal now seems to have problems connected
    with it.Any updates ?(Mike and Martin)

    We have been promised by Officers for 3 years at least that the wall
    drains near the old toilet block would be fixed and the expansion joints
    filled with tar to prevent seeping.What has happened ? – NOTHING.
    I must have sent 100+ e-mails on the subject.
    We were promised again last October (see John Riby’s work sheet and
    e-mails from Brian) that the problem would be addressed by May 1st but
    we are only days away from the start of the season.
    John/Brian what is happening ?

    If conversion of the old toilet block has been delayed/abandoned could
    we please paint it at least.(John,Martin and Mike)

    The area was only recently added to the West Cliff Project Team Agenda
    but needs to be on it going forward (Brian)

    However I still hope things will be done in the next week.

    We have a simple case of necessary works being brought to our attention
    yet again.

    Surely now we simply need to say thank you to Mr Broderick and assure
    him that all the basic maintenance issues will be addressed.



  566. Might be best if this article was withdrawn pending more concrete information?

    It’s speculation at best and perhaps should be left in the forums for anonymous comment that cannot be picked up by the search engines.

  567. Angela,

    To be fair to TMITWS , he saw all this coming, althou he was a bit lunitic imo, he made some fair points in his “rants”,

    Any idea where he went?

    maybe a padded cell!!!!!!!!

  568. Padded cells are for truely ‘M’ad people, t’M’itws is around i’M’ sure of it..perhaps ‘M’asquarading as so’M’eone else ‘M’aybe??

  569. MMMMMmmmmmmmmnm i wonder!!!!!

  570. Yet I was only just reading on the Gazette website that unemployment was high in our area. Those on the rock ‘n’ roll should go and pick this up


  571. Tom,

    Below is a quote form your comment:-

    “Everything I do is researched and well documented, everything I post is SBC’s responsibility and for the benefit of residents and visitors.”

    Moving back to your original comments

    “A Happy Easter message to Conservative Councillors Council leader Cllr Tom Fox, Cons Cllr Joe Plant, Cons Cllr Kenyon and Cons Cllr Clegg, who are all so out of touch with Real Whitby people:
    so out of touch with the rot and despair of Whitby Pier, the rot and despair of the West Cliff Promenade,
    so out of touch with Whitby’s economic plight, the need for family tax credits, working tax credits, disability benefits, pensions,
    so out of touch with the availability of affordable housing in Whitby,
    so out of touch with the fact that Whitby must retain its maternity facilities,
    must retain a fully equipped custody facility at Whitby police station,
    old peoples homes, especially palliative care, respite care and an fully staffed Accident & Emergency capability……………
    Brand new Schools, academies, built all over the UK and what did Whitby get to improve it’s education facilities, how will Whitby’s parents be able to afford to send their children to University…………”

    The Councillors you mention as SBC Councillors may be out of touch and they may not have been effective over the repairs you rightly mention but they have no powers over family tax credits, working tax credits, disability benefits, pensions,maternity facilities, custody facility at Whitby police station, old peoples homes, especially palliative care, respite care and fully staffed Accident & Emergency capability, new Schools, academies etc..

    Why muddy the water and give them wriggle room by listing things that are not SBC responsibility. As I have said more weight will attach to the relevant items. Direct complaints to the correct authority. Don’t muddle SBC with WTC and NYCC or central Government and you will be more effective.


  572. well said M

  573. Rudy and Frank,

    What about using all the school kids who are on holiday. They could move the rubbish if the gentlemen at the Council are too busy..

  574. Those on the dole who are getting paid out of our taxes should pick it up along with anyone caught dropping it instead of getting a fine! School children on holiday should not be picking up litter – they should be out playing and being children!!

  575. Cant believe there are no comments on this one ? Where are all those people who say that no-one listens to Nigel ?

    Dont Feed The Moose

  576. Nigel is better for knowing and a very clever man. I think people with lesser minds are frightened of him.

  577. When the work actually starts, then we will see! I was there at the weekend – stuff was dropping off the lighthouses like billy-o and the west one was open for business – crazy!

  578. Whitby Town (Parish) Council resolved (I am told, unanimously) on Tuesday 5th April 2011 to send the letters of commendation (which finally went out on 19th April). So another four weeks has rolled by and still SBC has not lifted a finger.

    Meanwhile, SBC Leader Councillor Tom Fox, former Head of Technical Services John Riby, Councillor Peter Popple (Chair of the pilot Harbour Board) and Head of Tourism & Culture Brian Bennett have all studiously ignored requests for the status monitoring reports on the Lighthouses going back over the last decade.

    SBC won’t tell us how bad their condition us, or how quickly they are deteriorating. And they are doing nothing whatsoever to halt the decline.

    In my view, WTC’s rather grudging letters of commendation were nothing more than a transparent attempt to cosy up to the electorate on the eve of the elections.

    I walk down to the East Pier Lighthouse two or three times a week. The only Councillor I ever saw on the East Pier was Ian Havelock.

    And now 14 out of 19 seats will be filled without a single vote being cast.

    • Once again we see a fine example of ‘head in the sand’, ‘toys thrown out of the pram’, petulance more befitting a child than self-proclaimed responsible adults, as displayed by SBC’s stubborn refusal to respond to a straightforward request for information.
      Of course, we ‘Old Campaigners’ are all too familiar with this ‘ignore it and it will go away’ phenomenon because it is the all too common and preferred option of the egotistical mindsets that exist in the corridors of power.
      It’s all very similar to Nero fiddling whilst Rome burned, as our communities inexorably sink into levels of squalor and neglect more reminiscent of the Medieval age than the 21st Century, whilst those that should be addressing these issues continue to fiddle and ignore public opinion.

  579. I fear that, for all the window-dressing, no matter how well-intentioned the letters of commendation might have been, once the election is over, unless the people of Whitby are prepared to elect the likes of Ken Graham or Richard Ineson or Peter Budd or Nigel Ward onto Whitby Town [Parish] Council, Scarborough Borough Council will quite happily continue with “business as usual”; even if one or more of these campaigning candidates is elected, they will have a fight on their hands to galvanise the reluctant or acquiescent majority into action against their seemingly untouchable masters. Of course, the reactionary incumbents might be voted out of office, and a new era of common sense reality might be ushered in: we live in hope, don’t we?

  580. Are you not accepting posts on this?

  581. Well said Bob Turner, you must have been inspired by Codheads cartoon of the 5th of March. Great minds think alike


    The plot thickens

    “Whitby police have confirmed that an investigation is being “progressed” into a conservative candidate for the upcoming Scarborough Borough Council election for the Whitby West Cliff ward. Real Whitby now understands that “witness statements have been taken” and Whitby Police “intend to interview another person” about the matter”

  583. Whitby police have confirmed that an investigation is being “progressed” into a conservative candidate for the upcoming Scarborough Borough Council election for the Whitby West Cliff ward. Real Whitby now understands that “witness statements have been taken” and Whitby Police “intend to interview another person” about the matter

  584. They obviously are Pete


    • Frank L. Chalmers

      How to state the obvious…

      Let me guess – you’ve got a degree in massage, but not an ounce of common sense!?

      No wait, that’s what’s his face… not you… but you’re not far off. At least as far as my opinion of you is concerned.

  585. Interesting email from Nigel Ward To Tom Fox Conservative Lead Of Scarborough Borough Council

    Councillor Tom FOX – Leader – Scarborough Borough Council


    In the light of the breaking news story, as published on the Real-Whitby newsblog and elsewhere, I believe that it would be appropriate for you, as Leader not only of Scarborough Borough Council, but also as Leader of the Conservative group within the Council, to make a statement to the public, via the press, in good time for the elections on Thursday 5th May 2011.

    The story can be reviewed here:

    It is interesting to note that the story is, in some sense, a follow-up to an earlier story that has, perhaps, not escaped your attention:

    Of striking interest is the first of a dozen or so ‘comments’ published below the second-mentioned (though first-published) story – a comment by Inspector Mark Grange.

    But of greater moment, I hope that you are aware of my extensive correspondence with Mr Ian Anderson, Head of Legal & Support Services and Monitoring Officer on this subject. I have found his reaction extremely inadequate.

    Please make a timely, open and transparent statement, in the public domain, clarifying the Council’s (and the Conservative Party’s) position in relation to the controversy that now appears to surround a Conservative candidate in the Whitby West Cliff ward.

    Yours, with kind regards,


    • Frank L. Chalmers

      It’s my guess that there has yet to be a reply.

      I doubt there will be a reply, but then, what’s new?