From York Potash, With Love

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From York Potash, With Love

 

  • Corruption Buster Tim Thorne scratches at the surface of the North Yorkshire Moors greatest potential source of wealth – a tale of two tickets that tell a tale of their own . . . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As Real Whitby readers will know, Registers of Interests are always intriguing reading, but the full facts are obscured as relevant information is often altered or omitted.

Given the willingness of Local Authorities to support York Potash’s dig on the North Yorks Moors, let us firstly have a dig into the information around the Chairman of the Planning Committee at North Yorks Moors National Park Authority.

Councillor Tim LAWN, Planning Committee Chairman at the North Yorkshire Moors National Park Authority, and also a member of Scarborough Borough Council, currently declares that he accepted Theatre Tickets from one ‘W Woods’, in June 2011.

Further inspection of his historical Register of Interests reveals that the tickets were accepted for the Elton John Concert at the Open Air Theatre on the 5th June 2011 and they were gifted by ‘William Woods & Co Ltd, Bowforth House, Welburn, Kirbymoorside, YORK, YO62 6HJ’, but this comprehensive information was obscured.

  • Register Entry removed 13/07/2012:
  • –        05/06/2011 – William Woods & Co Ltd, Bowforth House, Welburn, Kirbymoorside, YORK, YO62 6HJ – Open Air Theatre Tickets x 2
  • Register Entry added 13/07/2012
  • –        June 2011 – W Woods – Theatre Tickets

A few cursory checks reveal that William Woods is a director of York Potash and is listed as the ‘Development Manager’. You can confirm William Woods links to the above address here and here.

I wonder if the Elton John Concert tickets were the ones bought by Jim Dillon on his Council Credit Card? When asked if the tickets in question were bought for ‘people who were related by blood or marriage to employees, officers or Councillors of Scarborough Borough Council’ Jim Dillon’s response was that they were ‘sold to a member of the public’ and he was ‘unable to comment on their guests’.

Having established a relationship between a director of York Potash and the Chairman of the Planning Committee of North Yorks Moor National Park Authority, one wonders how far back that relationship extends?

Digging a little bit deeper on Councillor Tim LAWN’s Register of Interests, we find that he has sizable land holdings. Since Councillor LAWN’s first recorded Register of Interests, his land holdings have doubled from five parcels of land to ten in the last four years.

All those parcels of land are in the Sneaton/Littlebeck area, which surrounds the proposed York Potash minehead site – rather fortuitous business decisions on the part of Councillor LAWN, since the closer your land is to the minehead, the quicker you’ll receive money from York Potash for Mineral Rights under your land.

One of the parcels of land is listed as ‘Raines Lane, Sneatonthorpe’ which was added to Councillor LAWN’s Register of Interest on 29/07/2011.

There is no Raines Lane in Sneatonthorpe. There is, however, a Raikes Lane in Sneatonthorpe, which happens to be the site of the new minehead!

Perhaps York Potash should employ Councillor Tim LAWN as he seems adept at digging holes!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Timeline of Events
  • January 2011 – York Potash formally open discussions with North Yorks Moors National Park Authority about developing a Potash mine
  • June 2011 – Councillor Tim Lawn accepts the gift of two Theatre Tickets from William Woods, Director of York Potash
  • July 2011 – Councillor Tim Lawn adds land on Raikes’ Lane (first listed as ‘Raines Lane’), Sneatonthorpe, to his Scarborough Borough Council Register of Interests
  • July 2012 – Changes made to Councillor Tim Lawn‘s SBC Register of Interests in an apparent attempt to obscure the identity of the person who gifted the tickets (see links above)
  • September 2012 – York Potash announce location of the proposed minehead, on land between the B1416, Raikes’ Lane and Sneatonthorpe Lane

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

sirius_stars

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117 Comments

  1. Don't Shaft It March 8, 2013 at 4:28 pm - Reply
  2. Chris the Milkman March 8, 2013 at 4:52 pm - Reply

    Please read here for more shocking information!

    http://goo.gl/AgLhA

  3. Al Roberts March 8, 2013 at 4:52 pm - Reply

    EUREKA!
    Tim Thorne has certainly discovered someone with the apparently secretive formula to turn potash into gold!
    Is this alchemy at last?
    A would miner with the Midas touch?

  4. Tim Thorne March 8, 2013 at 5:08 pm - Reply

    Cllr Lawn is one of those Self-Servatives that Nigel says exist in vast numbers. Those five parcels of land he acquired in the last four years will likely earn him around £1million in mineral rights.

    • Make Britian Great Again. March 17, 2013 at 9:01 pm - Reply

      Tim accepts defeat, as he acknowledges that land owners will likely earn from land. I bet Tim, is gutted with all that research he failed to spot an opportunity. I guess you could say he couldnt see the mine from the trees.

      Tim Thorne Wrote

      March 8, 2013 at 5:08 pm

      Cllr Lawn is one of those Self-Servatives that Nigel says exist in vast numbers. Those five parcels of land he acquired in the last four years will likely earn him around £1million in mineral rights.

      Tim, I do like all of your research, may I suggest you go and check a one of the so called “We dont want the mine in our back yard” I fear you will soon find one of the them coming out in support, when hidden behind a false company and directors lies a land owner.

  5. Yordan Jeffries March 8, 2013 at 5:20 pm - Reply

    I have every confidence that Tim Lawn purchased the land where the mineshaft and boreholes are before York Potash had decided where the mineshaft was going to be sited. His position as Chair of the Planning Committee had nothing to do with it.

  6. AnarchyUK March 8, 2013 at 5:32 pm - Reply

    Who needs Sirius when local Cllr Lawn could have his very own Potash Project? He has all the details and drawings and his own Planning Authority to boot. Well played Cllr Lawn.

  7. J Chapman March 8, 2013 at 5:42 pm - Reply

    2009? Isn’t that 2 years before York Potash was even formed? Is he Mystic Meg?

    In any event his interest as a mineral rights owner has been properly declared and he won’t have a vote on the plan.

    Is there some implied impropriety in his neighbour giving him a couple of concert tickets?

    Seems like someone’s making something out of nothing.

    • AnarchyUK March 8, 2013 at 5:59 pm - Reply

      I think you will find that Sirius have been sniffing around since 2008, at least that is when Squirrel joined up the dots. Though Woods joined the Board of Directors in 2011, perhaps they felt Woods had some commercial benefit to add to the project.

  8. Stakesby Legs March 8, 2013 at 6:11 pm - Reply

    Quite right, Chappy. As long as you’re not bothered about people in a position of trust using information acquired in that position for a spot of insider trading, and then hiding it through a minimalist approach to the declaration of interests then there’e nothing to see here, peeps. Keep shopping! Private Eye calculates there’s £2.5M profit in the pipeline (geddit?) for this serious investor.

    http://www.real-whitby.co.uk/2-5-million-pound-conflict-of-interests-at-national-park

  9. admin March 8, 2013 at 6:27 pm - Reply

    Is this brief summary correct Tim.

    2011 The Chair of the national park accepts gifts from The Director Of York Potash

    From 2009 – 2013 The Chair Of the National Park Starts Buying Lots Of Land In the Sneaton And Little Beck Area.

    In 2013 It Is decided that York Potash want to place the minehead in the sneaton And Littlebeck area on a peace of land owned by The Chair Of The Planning Committe who also stands to be paid a vast amount of money if the project goes ahead.

    Tim just for real thickos like me, could you stick a simple concise bulleted timeline in your article so we can see exactly what has happened.

    • Pippypop April 9, 2013 at 1:52 pm - Reply

      Post removed because :

      1. Not a real name
      2. Use of proxy Server

  10. AnarchyUK March 8, 2013 at 6:32 pm - Reply

    I think it was Sep 2012 when the mineshaft site was located. Don’t forget they are waiting on SM11 test drill to come through on that site, no doubt it will reveal “the biggest and best potash seam in the world” – have they booked Jeremy Clarkson to cut the ribbon ..

  11. admin March 8, 2013 at 6:48 pm - Reply

    So is my summary correct ? Is this a conspiracy theory or are they all in each others back pockets ?

    • Tim Thorne March 8, 2013 at 7:18 pm - Reply

      Glenn, a timeline has been added to the foot of the article. I hope that clears things up?

      • Drivel Buster March 10, 2013 at 9:46 pm - Reply

        No, Mr Thorne, it does not clear things up. I thought that a corruption buster dug the truth out of its camouflage, but you have camouflaged the truth with your timeline.
        In your article you state that the mine head is proposed on land off Raike’s Lane and insinuated that this land belonged to Mr Lawn. It is clear from admin’s 6.27 pm post on 8/3/2013 that he believed that is what you meant and he requested a timeline from you to confirm it.
        In the timeline you state that the mine head would be on land between the B1416, Raike’s Lane and Sneatonthorpe Lane. Now this is a significant area, probably in excess of 700 acres, and I estimate that Mr Lawn owns around 10% of it. Your statement is correct, but actually you are just obscuring the truth. The truth can easily be found on the York Potash website which states that the mine head would be built on land at Doves Nest Farm and Haxby Plantation. Mr Lawn has no interest in either of these properties, but you did not mention this presumably because it destroyed your assertion that the mine head was proposed on Mr Lawn’s property ??

        I have also noticed that you have advertised your article with four separate links on the Whitby Gazette website.
        Mr Thorne, IMO you are not a corruption buster, but a cyber bully, and a conceited one at that.

  12. Nigel Ward March 8, 2013 at 7:19 pm - Reply

    Timeline added to the foot of the article.

  13. Des Brittain March 8, 2013 at 8:13 pm - Reply

    Nice one. Let’s get these greedy, corrupt gits.
    “Self-Servatives”……I love that one.

  14. admin March 8, 2013 at 8:18 pm - Reply

    This sounds dreadful, If true I think there is far too many coincidences here. Surely heads must roll?

    • Tim Thorne March 8, 2013 at 10:18 pm - Reply

      It doesn’t look good at all. I wonder how many more members of NYMNPA have bought land recently? That should be on their Registers of Interest, but curiously there are none available on their website so I’ve asked them directly for their Registers.

      • Tim Thorne March 19, 2013 at 12:19 pm - Reply

        Still no response to requests for a sight of their Registers of Interest. I wonder why would it take so long?

  15. Brian Dodds March 8, 2013 at 8:23 pm - Reply

    So, here we are with another tangled web, but this one appears to be the most profitable for those concerned. It appears from the evidence here that Cllr Tim Lawn has built himself a nice big nest egg, wouldn,t it be a crying shame if it all fell to bits around him, if there is any justice it will do just that, followed closely by his forced resignation.

  16. secretsqu March 8, 2013 at 8:50 pm - Reply

    “I think you will find that Sirius have been sniffing around since 2008, at least that is when Squirrel joined up the dots.”

    @Anarchy, I would appreciate it if you would desist from misquoting me.

    As for some of the inferences made above, there was talk on another article regarding hiring a lawyer. How prophetic that could now be.

    • Stakesby Legs March 8, 2013 at 9:29 pm - Reply

      Of course. Sirius will sue SBC for keeping a public record. You’re a scream.

      • Tim Thorne March 8, 2013 at 10:18 pm - Reply

        😀

    • AnarchyUK March 8, 2013 at 9:30 pm - Reply

      Squirell, I wasn’t misquoting you I just recalled you had been a shareholder since then, hope that clears that up. As usual you think its Sirius that the suspicions and doubts are about. Far from it, as said before, if we could place our trust in our local authorities to act in our best interests, rather than their own, then we wouldn’t be having this discussion. WDTK? As for Sirius they are quite entitled to do as they do, but when people are elected and hold public office at the publics expense then I think they have a code of conduct to adhere to.

  17. Frank Chalmers March 8, 2013 at 8:54 pm - Reply

    Councillor Tim Lawn sounds like a hog at the trough to me!

    Greed, greed, greed.

    I would like to have a bit of a talk with this fellow.

    I bet he is one of the “we’re all in it together” brigade too.

    He looks like a douche to me, and looks like a liar too.

  18. Manchunian Martyr March 8, 2013 at 9:13 pm - Reply

    Suggestion for Real Whitby editor: to better separate news from opinion/”corruption” busting.

    Cheers.

  19. Colin Doran March 8, 2013 at 9:24 pm - Reply

    If the tickets bought on Jim Dillon’s council card were sold on, has he paid that money back to the council I ask.

    • Tim Thorne March 8, 2013 at 10:11 pm - Reply

      In an FOI request to SBC, Jim Dillon stated that the third party reimbursed the money to SBC upon receipt of the tickets.

  20. AnarchyUK March 8, 2013 at 9:41 pm - Reply

    “Just because we are in opposition does not make us enemies” someone said that recently.

  21. secretsqu March 8, 2013 at 9:46 pm - Reply

    Anarchy, fair enough, I just wanted the record to be straight.

    Yes I have been a shareholder way before CC & CF appeared on the scene.

    That said, the latter has my full support after reading over 90% of the PA docs.

  22. secretsqu March 8, 2013 at 10:26 pm - Reply

    “In an FOI request to SBC, Jim Dillon stated that the third party reimbursed the money to SBC upon receipt of the tickets.”

    So that’s that particular case closed then.

  23. secretsqu March 8, 2013 at 10:37 pm - Reply

    “In an FOI request to SBC, Jim Dillon stated that the third party reimbursed the money to SBC upon receipt of the tickets.”

    Hang on a second Tim, why wasn’t this stated by you in your original missive?

    • Tim Thorne March 8, 2013 at 10:43 pm - Reply

      It was, you failed to follow the link and read it.

    • Dave Red August 29, 2013 at 1:46 pm - Reply

      Raikes Lane, Sneatonthorpe. At the junction of Raikes Lane and the B1416 a very dilapidated tumbledown almost non-existent dry-stone wall has been resurrected and restored. The wall is at right-angles to the road. Metal hooks have been inserted into the stones on one side of the road. These hooks are typical of the type of hook that metal gates are hung from. It is possible that Raikes Lane was once a gated road. There were many of these gated-roads on the North Yorkshire Moors to keep sheep and cows confined to certain areas. Most, if not all have disappeared and been replaced by cattle grids on the road allowing easier access by vehicles. Travelling down Raikes Lane away from the direction of the B1416 and just past the farm on the left-hand side one finds the remnants of another dry-stone wall at right-angles to the road which upon examination would appear to have held a gate and thus Raikes Lane may have once been a gated road. Further down, there is no sign of where the other gate may have been. It would be strange if somebody should spend money on restoring and building a dry-stone wall equipped with metal hooks from which to hang gates at the entrance to a road if one is not going to place a gate there possibly locked or possibly manned day and night by guards. The two entrances to the Potash site are/were manned day and night by guards.

      If Raikes Lane, Sneatonthorpe, is a bona-fide public highway one must be vigilant that this amenity is not lost to the public by some sleight of hand.

  24. secretsqu March 8, 2013 at 10:57 pm - Reply

    “In an FOI request to SBC, Jim Dillon stated that the third party reimbursed the money to SBC upon receipt of the tickets.”

    Perhaps you would be good enough to show me where you made this disclosure in your article then? Or was it veiled?

    • Stakesby Legs March 8, 2013 at 11:19 pm - Reply

      You need to read before you post, bushytail. Your own posts, that is. Do you have no sense at all of how deperate you come across with your pettyfogging? Or are you just hoping to distract readers attention away from the obvious conclusion that a snappy bit of insider-info exploitation is the name of the game here?

  25. Chris the Milkman March 8, 2013 at 11:22 pm - Reply

    Petition against the mine, please sign http://alturl.com/emnoh

    • DKP March 9, 2013 at 8:40 am - Reply

      That is really quite amusing, cobber. And very telling. It perfectly typifies the Sirian policy of propagating any old bare-faced lie in order to achieve the desired result – the fulfillment of greed. The entire proposal has been tainted by lies of commission and omission. Decent people wash their hands of it.

      • Chris the Milkman March 9, 2013 at 2:53 pm - Reply

        Thanks mate, I do try to inject humour when I can.

        I’ll let you know if I see one of these lies that you talk about it. As far as I can tell, it has all been above board and the whole process been dealt with commendably.

  26. Chris the realist March 9, 2013 at 5:13 am - Reply

    Open your eyes – the country is bankrupt. Yes the National Park is lovely and deserves to be protected, but tourism alone won’t pay off the overdraft.

    Be thankful that a British company wants to invest billions into the local and national economy in an environmentally-sensitive way.

    http://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/support-the-york-potash-project

    • Tim Thorne March 10, 2013 at 12:06 am - Reply

      “Be thankful that a British company wants to invest billions”

      It is not a British company. The nationality of the people who will finance the mine has yet to be determined. Lets try to deal in facts, OK?

      • Chris the Milkman March 11, 2013 at 6:23 pm - Reply

        Even if it wasn’t a British company (which it is), money invested in the area is still money invested in the area!

        As far as I am aware a lot of the larger investors in the company are big british fund institutions.

  27. Nigel Ward March 9, 2013 at 10:10 am - Reply

    http://www.real-whitby.co.uk/2-5-million-pound-conflict-of-interests-at-national-park

    More interesting reading from the latest Issue of Private Eye under Rotten Boroughs:

    “MOOR THE MERRIER – Tricky conflict of interest situations for the planning committee of North York Moors national park authority as it considers plans for the world’s biggest potash mine.

    Mining company Sirius Minerals say locals will be happy to have the UK’s largest mine on their doorstep. Some certainly will. More than £ 1bn will be shared among some 300 landowners for the rights to extract minerals for fertiliser. Before the bonanza, however, plans must get through the North York Moors planning committee.

    Chairman Tim Lawn and member Helen Swiers, both councillors, could each eventually earn £ 2.5m , if the plans are passed. Lawn owns farms and land around the village of Sneaton near the mine entrance. He tells the Eye “I am aware of the duty of the park authority to promote and maintain high standards of conduct by members and I do all I can to ensure high standards are maintained … I do not take part in any matters associated with the potash application … I have declared my interests.”

    Indeed. According to minutes, Cllrs Swiers and Lawn have left planning committee meetings when the mine has been discussed. A single park office door provides a forbidding Chinese wall for Cllr Lawn, who stands to make millions if his fellow members pass the plans. What are the odds? Since 1997 he has had 11 planning applications approved and only one refused by the planning committee he currently chairs.”

    PRIVATE EYE, FEB 2013

  28. Jane Swales March 9, 2013 at 10:18 am - Reply

    A question for Councillor Lawn, please.

    Do you want to

    (a) be a Councillor and serve the public?

    (b) be a speculator and serve yourself?

    It’s make your mind up time!

    • pete budd March 10, 2013 at 8:29 pm - Reply

      That,s silly Jane, the two options are not mutually exclusive and don,t have to conflict.

      • Jane Swales March 10, 2013 at 11:33 pm - Reply

        That’s true, Peter. They don’t have to conflict. It would be naive to imagine they never do. Or even seldom do. Just as it would be naive to think that the £2.5M that Private Eye estimates will be Councillor Lawn’s haul was motivated entirely by his altruism.

  29. FiFi Binks March 9, 2013 at 11:15 am - Reply

    O my god, y can’t you lot just realise that some of use in the area really need the jobs that this will provide, my hubby was made redundant from plaxtons and there are more like him too which need the work, they deisigns that I saw at the Meeting at the spa looked good and would not be bad to look at. Much better than other buildings like that massive chicken farm near dolby at leaest
    I’m glad that not many people read the concpirasy theeries you always write intend to ruin everything that could be good about this town

    • AnarchyUK March 10, 2013 at 8:26 am - Reply

      Plaxtons are doing really well and have just taken on 25 full time production workers.

      • Chris the Milkman March 11, 2013 at 6:25 pm - Reply

        Probably depends on the area of work in the company. Jobs lost because of automation are not directly regained when other areas of the business are growing.

  30. Nigel Ward March 9, 2013 at 5:35 pm - Reply

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Nigel
    To: Andy WILSON (NYMNP CEO)
    Cc: Richard FLINTON (NYCC CEO)
    Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2013 1:00 PM
    Subject: Fw: Interests [01] – Addendum

    Mr Andy WILSON – Chief Executive Officer – North Yorkshire Moors national Park Authority

    Andy,

    As an addendum to my email of yesterday (Friday 8th March 2013), I draw to your attention an observation made to me this morning by a Portfolio-Holder of another Council.

    Given the circumstances that have required the Chair of the NYMNPA Planning Committee to absent himself from the York Potash Planning Application decision-making process, and being mindful of the fact that the timescale applicable to the cause of that necessity, it has been suggested that the Planning Committee has been impoverished by the absence of the Chair during perhaps the most important and significant Application ever to have come before the Committee.

    Surely, the appropriate course of action must have been for the Chair to offer his resignation from the Committee immediately after it became apparent to him that his declaration would necessarily bar him from taking any active role, thus facilitating the election of a new Chair in order that the Committee might consider the Application at full strength.

    I do not know if it is now too late for the Chair of the Planning Committee to recognise the extent to which his continued incumbency inevitably detriments the process.

    However, I do think that, as Chief Executive, it falls squarely within your remit to address this point to the Chair of the Planning Committee.

    Please do so.

    There can be little doubt that the declaration of interests in respect of the relationship with the person who gifted the theatre tickets fell some way short of complete transparency.

    That is a matter that we must address separately.

    Yours, with very kind regards,

    Nigel

  31. secretsqu March 9, 2013 at 10:06 pm - Reply

    Stakesby Legs, my question was a request for clarity on the Jim Dillon comments. All I see is the following…they were ‘sold to a member of the public’ and he was ‘unable to comment on their guests’.

    So I even wonder why JD mentioned this in his article.

    Seeking clarity…guilty as charged.

    Nigel Ward..given your previous comments on another thread regarding condescending language to make a point, I trust that you are watching here also? Or is that reserved only for people that are against this project?

    I trust that you will provide feedback and highight the eronious posts in order to back up your claims.

    In the meantime, check out the For & Against ratio’s from the Public Consultation Process…It’s quite overwhelming!

    I’d welcome your comment on that also!

    • Tim Thorne March 10, 2013 at 12:10 am - Reply

      “In the meantime, check out the For & Against ratio’s from the Public Consultation Process…It’s quite overwhelming!”

      The ratio is likely the same as the number of objectors versus the number of investors. Some people see a chance of decently paid employment, but the majority see the chance to make a quick buck. We know which camp you are in, investor.

  32. secretsqu March 9, 2013 at 10:22 pm - Reply

    “Given the circumstances that have required the Chair of the NYMNPA Planning Committee to absent himself from the York Potash Planning Application decision-making process, and being mindful of the fact that the timescale applicable to the cause of that necessity, it has been suggested that the Planning Committee has been impoverished by the absence of the Chair during perhaps the most important and significant Application ever to have come before the Committee.”

    That comment lacks even the most basic wisdom, that I’m surprised that somebody that sets himself up as such a ‘learned’ person,had the temerity to post it.

    You also seem to avoid direct questions put to you on these threads.

    Hey…Ho!

  33. Chris the realist March 10, 2013 at 2:10 am - Reply

    It is not a British company. The nationality of the people who will finance the mine has yet to be determined. Lets try to deal in facts, OK?

    ———-
    Utter nonsense. International sources of finance don’t make the company any less British. China, India, Brazil etc will be buying the product, not the Company.

    Facts:

    YORK POTASH LTD
    Status: Active
    Date of Incorporation: 12/05/2010

    Country of Origin: United Kingdom

    SIRIUS MINERALS PLC
    Status: Active
    Date of Incorporation: 30/10/2003

    Country of Origin: United Kingdom

    • Tim Thorne March 10, 2013 at 1:14 pm - Reply

      “Country of Origin”

      Wow, is this really what you base your argument on? It was registered here, so it must be a British company, even though you know the minority of shareholders are British? You’re no realist, perhaps you should stick to being a milkman?

  34. AnarchyUK March 10, 2013 at 8:38 am - Reply

    With Chris Catlow on Board the links with http://www.indomines.com.au/ suggest the company will end up a subsidiary of the Rajawali Group and Rockcheck. Will the Moors become a commoddity that belongs to China?

  35. Vanda Inman March 10, 2013 at 10:12 am - Reply
    • rod mathers March 10, 2013 at 10:37 am - Reply

      Keep digging, Vanda, and “Hey, Preston!” you will find more than potash. (Come out of there, Sweep!)

      • FiFi Binks March 10, 2013 at 5:12 pm - Reply

        Who’s Preston?

        • Jane Swales March 10, 2013 at 11:39 pm - Reply

          Sorry, Fifi. Typo. I meant Hey Presto, of course.

          • rod mathers March 10, 2013 at 11:53 pm - Reply

            That’s very droll.

            • Chris the Milkman March 11, 2013 at 12:17 pm - Reply

              Jane Swales = Rod Mathers ay?

              FAO Timmy Prickles: Chris the realist is NOT Chris the Milkman.

              • Jane Swales March 11, 2013 at 1:06 pm - Reply

                You are very keen to announce how much passes over your head, poppet. How embarrassing for you. Gullible’s travails.

                • Chris the Milkman March 11, 2013 at 2:01 pm - Reply

                  Hi Jane. I am not embarrassed, but thanks for your consideration.

  36. secretsqu March 10, 2013 at 7:13 pm - Reply

    “Wow, is this really what you base your argument on? It was registered here, so it must be a British company, even though you know the minority of shareholders are British? You’re no realist, perhaps you should stick to being a milkman?”

    Care to back that statement up Tim?

    • Tim Thorne March 10, 2013 at 10:54 pm - Reply

      I can no more prove he is a milkman than you a squirrel. However, I can prove a director of York Potash has gifted theatre tickets to the Chairman of the Planning Committee on North Yorks Moors National Park Authority.

      • Chris the Milkman March 11, 2013 at 12:19 pm - Reply

        Timmy Prickles, I am Chris the Milkman. No idea who Chris the Realist is, nowt to do with me poppet.

  37. secretsqu March 10, 2013 at 7:22 pm - Reply

    “The ratio is likely the same as the number of objectors versus the number of investors. Some people see a chance of decently paid employment, but the majority see the chance to make a quick buck. We know which camp you are in, investor.”

    Yes Tim, I am an investor. But just to clarify, I am not a supporter because I invested, I invested because I am a supporter.

    That’s something that you fail to grasp. I have always stated that I support all of the caveats of the WTC and hope that they take those comments on board, otherwise I would remove my support for the project along with my investment.

    What I am not doing, unlike you, is dressing opinion up as facts. This blog is a wonderful tool for sharing opinions both for and against, but your closed mind and quasi-facts, are ruining what could be a good debate on the pro’s and cons.

    • Tim Thorne March 10, 2013 at 10:58 pm - Reply

      “What I am not doing, unlike you, is dressing opinion up as facts.”

      It is a fact that a director of York Potash has gifted theatre tickets to the Chairman of the Planning Committee of the North Yorks Moors National Park Authority. No opinion is this article, all fact. I’m surprised you’re not kicking up a fuss about the thoroughly unprofessional behaviour of a York Potash director.

  38. DKP March 10, 2013 at 7:47 pm - Reply

    You are off topic again, Bushytail.

    Members Code of Conduct

    5. You must not use or attempt to use your position as a member improperly to confer on or secure for yourself or any other person any advantage or disadvantage. [like investing in land that you know is about to increase in value?]

    6. If you are in receipt of any gift or hospitality which is attributable to your membership of the Authority, or any offer of any such gift or hospitality, you must disclose this to the Monitoring Officer; and you must decline to accept any such gift or hospitality which could reasonably be perceived as creating an obligation
    upon the Authority, or upon yourself as a member of the Authority. [like two tickets for the theatre?]

    7. You must not knowingly prevent, or attempt to prevent, another person from gaining access to information to which they are entitled by law.[like concealing the significance of the identity of the giver?]

    Naughty, naughty, naughty!

    Now we are back on topic, carry on from there.

    • Nigel Ward March 10, 2013 at 11:09 pm - Reply

      You must be psychic, Des!

  39. vanda inman March 11, 2013 at 9:23 am - Reply

    http://yorkpotash.co.uk/news/sm2-preliminary-results-announced/

    Drilling at the company’s second site has taken longer than expected after a series of fluid-loss-zones had caused delays. The company has apologised for any local inconvenience and has made a donation of £500 to the Eskdaleside-cum-Ugglebarnby Parish Council annual village show.

    A complex relationship with Tim Lawn and York Potash is emerging.

  40. Another Chris March 11, 2013 at 10:37 am - Reply

    …It was registered here, so it must be a British company, even though you know the minority of shareholders are British?

    ————

    More opinion presented as fact I see.

    Btw Chris the realist Chris the milkman

    So you’re wrong on that assertion too.

  41. secretsqu March 11, 2013 at 10:55 am - Reply

    Yes Tim, just as it can be proved that the Chairman of the planning commitee has declared all of his interests and therefore has no input into the eventual outcome of the planning application.

    • Chris the Milkman March 11, 2013 at 12:21 pm - Reply

      He’s good at forgetting that detail!

  42. vanda inman March 11, 2013 at 2:00 pm - Reply

    “York Potash has circulated a draft letter of support to all the parish councils in the area, asking them to formally declare their support.” more propaganda from York Potash no doubt, Fortunately small town politics is not all about self interest. http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/business/sneaton-council-won-t-back-mine-1-5487554

  43. secretsqu March 11, 2013 at 4:14 pm - Reply

    THREE schemes to improve young people’s employment opportunities and boost the North Yorkshire economy have been hailed at the launch of National Apprenticeship Week.

    As David Cameron pledged to make it the norm for school leavers to take an apprenticeship or go to university, the company behind a £1.5bn project to mine potash on the North York Moors said it was creating 20 new engineering apprenticeship opportunities for local people aged under 25.

    The York Potash apprentices will join the firm in September as mechanical fitters, electricians, instrumentation electricians and multi-skilled operators.

    The firm’s education and skills programme will see up to 500 people trained over the next three years, including up to 50 apprentices, to work at the mine at Sneaton, near Whitby.

    Following concerns York Potash would recruit much of its workforce from across Britain and abroad, Robert Goodwill, MP for Scarborough and Whitby, said he was pleased the firm was investing in developing skills locally.

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10281115.Apprenticeships_hailed_as_vital_for_North_Yorkshire_s_future/

    • Tim Thorne March 11, 2013 at 11:53 pm - Reply

      The usual cut and pasted York Potash PR guff. The really funny thing is, you claim not to be an employee, but you’ve spent weeks of your own time posting their PR releases for free. I pity you, Sq.

  44. AnarchyUK March 11, 2013 at 4:34 pm - Reply

    “500 people trained over the next three years” lol – like Woods was trained as he was escorted off the premises!

  45. AnarchyUK March 11, 2013 at 4:54 pm - Reply

    http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/business/conflict-of-interest-claim-over-potash-man-appointment-1-3776762

    Do Sirius seriously expect some level of loyalty from all their employees?

    Mind how you go.

  46. secretsqu March 11, 2013 at 8:23 pm - Reply

    Peter Woods was part of the planning commitee 13 years ago.

    Not sure what your point is regarding that 2011 article.

  47. secretsqu March 11, 2013 at 8:50 pm - Reply

    “Country of Origin”

    “Wow, is this really what you base your argument on? It was registered here, so it must be a British company, even though you know the minority of shareholders are British? You’re no realist, perhaps you should stick to being a milkman?”

    Still no facts to back up your statement then even after requests to do so.

    There is a pattern forming.

    • Tim Thorne March 11, 2013 at 11:49 pm - Reply

      No facts are necessary for that deduction. Only a fool would think that the majority of shareholders are British. Its a big, big world out there and they all buy stocks and shares too. I detect a big, big space between your ears. Perhaps you should market that void space, Sq?

      • Chris the Milkman March 12, 2013 at 10:13 am - Reply

        Secretsqu, you are the most patient man in the world. I commend your patient quest for a real answer from Timmy Prickles; the day that you receive an answer devoid of rhetoric or condescending nonsensical arguments will be a good one indeed.

  48. Robert Hanley March 12, 2013 at 11:16 am - Reply

    Me thinks Secretsqu is being very clever here as well as patient. To paraphrase an old proverb, “With enemies like these, who needs friends”.

  49. secretsqu March 12, 2013 at 11:33 am - Reply

    In the absence of you backing up your opinions as facts,[sic] just best for you to carry on throwing out insults when asked for any evidence. I notice you are even more abusive when using the comments section of newspaper articles.

    There is indeed a pattern here and it’s a shame that you feel the need to post in that manner as it only serves to stifle debate.

    Admin, I trust that you are taking note, given your previous comments on abusive behaviour posted other previous articles posted on TRW.

    • Robert Hanley March 12, 2013 at 12:06 pm - Reply

      As already stated, Tim Thorne is his own worst enemy and his resort to the use of insults in an attempt to support his arguments (“I detect a big, big space between your ears. Perhaps you should market that void space, Sq?”) does his cause no good at all. Indeed, it lays bare the shallowness of his arguments and displays his arrogance.

  50. Tim Thorne March 12, 2013 at 12:46 pm - Reply

    “In the absence of you backing up your opinions as facts”

    There are nearly 7 billion potential investors in this world. 60 million of them are British, less than 1%. Given the project is local there will be a higher than average number of British investors. Does that mean more than 50% of shareholders will be British nationals? Given the international nature of the stock markets and the very many investment vehicles based in this country that handle foreign clients, no.

    Its an opinion based on common sense and some knowledge of the way financial markets work. You’re welcome to post conclusive proof that my opinion is wrong. Of course, if your opinion is that my opinion is wrong and you can’t substantiate it, then you’ll clearly manoeuvred yourself into a great debating position.

    • Andy Pandy March 12, 2013 at 1:33 pm - Reply

      Tim, Surely on that basis any company that decides to list on a stock exchange instantly loses it’s nationality! Tesco? Marks and Spencer? National Grid? You are therefore saying that even if Sirius was not a ‘British’ Company, it is no reason to be against them.

      • Tim Thorne March 12, 2013 at 7:54 pm - Reply

        Andy, I would imagine the vast majority of traded companies don’t have the majority of their shareholders residing in that country in which the company is registered. Its a big, big world and we in this country often overestimate our own importance.

  51. secretsqu March 12, 2013 at 2:58 pm - Reply

    “There are nearly 7 billion potential investors in this world. 60 million of them are British, less than 1%. Given the project is local there will be a higher than average number of British investors. Does that mean more than 50% of shareholders will be British nationals? Given the international nature of the stock markets and the very many investment vehicles based in this country that handle foreign clients, no.”

    “Its an opinion based on common sense and some knowledge of the way financial markets work. You’re welcome to post conclusive proof that my opinion is wrong. Of course, if your opinion is that my opinion is wrong and you can’t substantiate it, then you’ll clearly manoeuvred yourself into a great debating position.”

    Correction; I never manouvered into any debating position on this matter. If you recall I said…”Care to back that up Tim”

    However, you’re opinion falls at the first hurdle.

    There aren’t a potential 7bn investors as the total world population stands at 7.1bn.

    Neither are there 60m potential British investors given that the UK population is currently 62m.

    There are also very strict rules for investing in British Companies for foreign investors particularly those that trade on AIM. Just ask any US retail investor. They have to rely on ADRs in the main. Access to FTSE350 investing is far easier.

    But you knew that anyway given some of your knowledge of the way financial markets work.

    • Tim Thorne March 12, 2013 at 7:50 pm - Reply

      “However, you’re opinion falls at the first hurdle.”

      No, it didn’t fall. You quoted a couple of figures which I could easily shoot holes in if I was as pedantic as you. The crux of my opinion remains the same and you haven’t even come close to proving my opinion is in anyway incorrect. Sirius is no more a British company than BP is. You’ll be telling us all that Ebay is a Luxembourg company because the company is registered there next…

  52. AnarchyUK March 12, 2013 at 5:16 pm - Reply

    Oh Sq, are we going to discuss Agenda 21 now? Now we’re on the subject of 1%, but pleeease don’t call your matey boy back in to lecture us all about rising populations and food production. Your opinion please SQ.

  53. secretsqu March 12, 2013 at 5:26 pm - Reply

    You’ll need to elaborate I’m afraid.

  54. Tom Brodrick March 12, 2013 at 5:30 pm - Reply

    The Sociologist Emile Durkheim once pointed out that not everything contractual is contained in the contract!
    He meant that tacit knowledge and informal rules are important, as well as the written regulations by which conversations are conducted.
    Professions have a culture and a practice as well as a code.

  55. secretsqu March 12, 2013 at 10:30 pm - Reply

    Shoot away Tim. Show me the holes.

    • Tim Thorne March 13, 2013 at 12:03 am - Reply

      You know I’m right on the money about the majority of Sirius shareholders not being British so what is the point exactly? Anyway, I’m off to do a spot of shopping at that well Luxembourg company, Ebay…

  56. Chris the Milkman March 12, 2013 at 11:47 pm - Reply

    Gives Codhead a run for his money!:

    http://i.imgur.com/7tWEIaD.jpg

  57. secretsqu March 13, 2013 at 10:07 am - Reply

    Predictable response.

    • Stakesby Legs March 13, 2013 at 4:53 pm - Reply

      My pal at SBC reckons your posts would have been deemed vexatious yonks ago. He said they’d have pulled the plug on you and pack you off to the ICO. Or in this case the PCC.

  58. AnarchyUK March 14, 2013 at 9:30 am - Reply

    Squirrel, we both know that the devil is in the detail, and we both know that communication is a pattern of symbols and that language is far more than the written word. Though there have been many clues. You have accused us of ‘scaremongering’ when the deed of ‘scaremongering’ lies firmly at the door of Sirius. The Moors has many guardians; good luck with this one:

    http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10287102.Ministry_of_Defence_want_assurances_over_potash_mine/

  59. Nigel Ward March 14, 2013 at 10:26 am - Reply

    http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/general-news/defence-chiefs-try-to-block-plan-for-1bn-mine-1-5496698

    Chris France: “There is always the possibility that the relevant information will be provided, and the scheme will progress.”

    “But as things currently stand, these concerns have the potential to be a showstopper.”

    Oooo-er!

  60. Chris the Milkman March 14, 2013 at 11:52 am - Reply

    “”Holding objections are fairly common in planning. Fylingdales want reassurance that we’re not going to interfere with their operations (perfectly understandable). We believe we can provide those guarantees and have meetings planned with them (a recent meeting was postponed because of snow).”

    “We are in on-going discussions with the MOD and we are certain that the detailed information that we are providing will address the queries raised and we can guarantee that our operations will have no impact on this important facility.”

    Not so “Oooo-er!”

    • Tim Thorne March 14, 2013 at 12:47 pm - Reply

      I see the share price has taken a hit today. I guess there is some ‘Oooo-er!’ after all.

  61. secretsqu March 14, 2013 at 12:55 pm - Reply

    ‘scaremongering’

    It would appear that you are trying to put words in my mouth that currently don’t exist. I’m not sure why.

    I guess that some viewers on here that read comments from people that state facts [sic] mainly in the negative without backing them up or indeed doing the most cursory of research could perhaps use that noun.

    It depends on the size of the cap and the recipients head.

    PS. Have you researched any of the planning application documents yet?

  62. anarchyUK March 14, 2013 at 1:43 pm - Reply

    “PS. Have you researched any of the planning application documents yet? ” Yes, though much of it looks like it has been cut and pasted from someone else’s Build A Mine in the Park Manual. And it is very time consuming having to cross reference with other Pot Ash producers, say K+S, to compare what they do. Is there an abridged on line interactive version with links that direct to points of interest?

    I looked at the links you posted yesterday re the fault lines but to me it just like someone has just got a blue crayon to suit Sirius’s purposes.
    I admit, much of it is just way over my head.

    But, why does it keep claiming there will be ‘no waste’ when other Sirius sources keep talking about backfilling?

    Overall the project is quite ‘genius’, and credit where it is due, but it is just simply in the very wrong place.

    Is it really surprising that the shareholders are sounding more like the Collective or the Borg? Correct me if I am wrong but the product is destined for China and the finance will be from China?

    Next time the shareholders are in ‘town’ get them to do the Lyke Wake Walk past the MoD in Fylingdales.

    I v much doubt you will get far with the MoD but then again should WWIII break out, would they really want to blast us off the face of the Earth with the Worlds Biggest Pot Ash Mine on our doorstep? Shame about it being next door to one of America’s first lines of Military Defence. Perhaps Sirius could arrange a swap?

    Perhaps you should have started digging in that direction sooner, you could have done us all a favour … though of course certain poached heads would have known all along … but I guess that is where greed comes in.

    • Tim Thorne March 20, 2013 at 12:49 am - Reply

      “Is it really surprising that the shareholders are sounding more like the Collective or the Borg?”

      Close, but no cigar.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIBT-JYiCuE

      Spooky!

      • Vanda Inman March 20, 2013 at 1:08 am - Reply

        Rule No 76! lol – hey, Tim, someone shouted your name rather passionately at tonight’s Helmsley meeting. Full report tomorrow. Anyone know any Morris Dancers, ‘cos those hankys are gonna come in handy.

  63. Tom Brodrick March 14, 2013 at 7:33 pm - Reply

    ONCE ITS GONE IT CAN NEVER BE REPLACED……………..!
    Why not just thank Sirius for the find and leave the Polyhalite where it is.
    Fylingdales will not be there forever, new technologies and a change in weapons technology………… it will eventually become obsolete.
    Until that day treat the Polyhalite discovery as a natural commodity, a valuable national resource that will only grow in value and importance as the decades roll by.
    A valuable natural resource that would provide the UK with it’s own nutrition for it’s own food supply in REAL times of need, perhaps even 50, 100…..200 years down the line. As well as a little to go as exports for financial income into the UK as a nation. Not a handful of investors.
    The days of individual people claiming ownership of everything beneath their feet because they quite literally gave a few quid for a piece of land in today’s world is ludicrous.
    Ludicrous, as everything beneath the earths surface on Sovereign Soil / Territory, should belong to the nation and mined as a National Interest.
    Bank it for future generations and leave it exactly where it is, until we are literally desperate for it ourselves.
    Not to do so is madness, mining it will make a handful of people very rich, this as a capitalist project is the only reason why the Polyhalite would be mined. It is only the money that is of real interest, not selfless concern for the well being of others.
    This idea of it being necessary to grow produce to feed the world in its ever-expanding population is just an ill thought out smokescreen. Population control will eventually become a reality, the availability of water will become a much greater concern.
    China is investing in Africa, Nepal, India, and Pakistan at an alarming rate for all the obvious reasons, yet there are a few individuals who are willing to quite literally give away this tremendously valuable national asset.
    It’s not like fishing stocks that can replenish themselves with careful management.
    It does not need to be mined, once its gone it cannot ever be replaced, think about it. How will this mining project be viewed 50, 100…………..200 years down the line.
    ONCE ITS GONE IT CAN NEVER BE REPLACED……………..!
    If there is ever a capitalist project needed in this area, a good sound investment, it is a rail link to York.
    Why mine the Polyhalite all at once? Mine some and bank the rest. Who would possibly be against such a proposal?
    If there is ever a case for true altruism then any profit from the mining of the Polyhalite should be used to provide such a rail link. Leading to real growth, real income to many people and who knows, new schools, social housing projects, a modern hospital.
    That will enrich this whole area, tourism, the arts, provide much needed jobs and growth and as a capitalist project be a good sound long term investment.
    This could easily be made to happen if the people involved were not so selfless. A true private / national initiative that would lead to many benefits, and much needed inward investment to the area.
    Just random thoughts…….

  64. Tim Thorne March 18, 2013 at 5:42 pm - Reply

    It seems Tim Lawn is no longer a Borough Councillor.

    http://democracy.scarborough.gov.uk/mgUserInfo.aspx?UID=403

  65. Captain Cook March 18, 2013 at 8:33 pm - Reply

    Hats off to Tim Thorne for revealing some very interesting information and putting his name to it (I presume). There does seem to be a lot of potential corruption which is disappointing but not surprising, but the Lib Dems and Labour are just as prone, if not worse so I don’t think terms like “self-servatives” adds anything mature or helpful. If anything the higher educated more often have the class not to stoop to such depths but it’s still rare to find altruism. Probably most of the vocal objectors have a view that will be spoilt or a tourist business. I think it’s open to anyone who reads the papers to invest in land around a proposed mine, I think most people would if they had insider info and the funds. I just hope the people who sold it got a good price! (I wonder if he told them he was head of planning when making the offer) Far more worrying is the corporate brown nosing. It seems very clever that the mine makes all the local landowners benefit – it almost guarantees local support. I’m with Brodrick that minerals should be seen as national or local assets so they can be more directly of benefit to the area. I feel the same about the gas in Thornton Dale. I would think in any event that should involve some compensation to local people whose property is affected (unlike happens with rail links which I don’t think would be a great idea). But without capitalism I’m worried no-one would have the drive to discover them. And we all know councillors and public sector workers of any nature would eventually turn anything into a cushdy number and wouldn’t bother upsetting people for no gain. That’s why we need people like Tim Thorne and a free press! Some councillors seem rightly to have been outed as unfit to serve public office but I still think it could be argued that the mine will be of benefit. Plenty of unemployed people in the North East from Middlesborough to Scarborough. I like the idea of hanging on to the resource though and letting all these grabbers stew on their land. Maybe the government should announce a plan to start mining it in 20 years then pay the landowners in 40 years (a small amount per year with half taken as tax). Then see how many local people think it’s a good idea for the area as a whole. We’d have more years of better tourism and then the stuff will be worth more.

  66. anarchyUK March 22, 2013 at 2:46 pm - Reply

    Can we start a bring back Tim Lawn campaign, it seems that if all interested parties are excluded there would be not many left:

    http://www.northyorkmoors.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/293903/Item-1-NPA-Dec-12.pdf

    “Cllr Brian Watson said he was in support of the plan, as long as the surrounding area was not spoilt.” SEN

  67. Dave Red August 29, 2013 at 1:54 pm - Reply

    Raikes Lane, Sneatonthorpe. At the junction of Raikes Lane and the B1416 a very dilapidated tumbledown almost non-existent dry-stone wall has been resurrected and restored. The wall is at right-angles to the road. Metal hooks have been inserted into the stones on one side of the road. These hooks are typical of the type of hook that metal gates are hung from. It is possible that Raikes Lane was once a gated road. There were many of these gated-roads on the North Yorkshire Moors to keep sheep and cows confined to certain areas. Most, if not all have disappeared and been replaced by cattle grids on the road allowing easier access by vehicles. Travelling down Raikes Lane away from the direction of the B1416 and just past the farm on the left-hand side one finds the remnants of another dry-stone wall at right-angles to the road which upon examination would appear to have held a gate and thus Raikes Lane may have once been a gated road. Further down, there is no sign of where the other gate may have been. It would be strange if somebody should spend money on restoring and building a dry-stone wall equipped with metal hooks from which to hang gates at the entrance to a road if one is not going to place a gate there possibly locked or possibly manned day and night by guards. The two entrances to the Potash site are/were manned day and night by guards.

    If Raikes Lane, Sneatonthorpe, is a bona-fide public highway one must be vigilant that this amenity is not lost to the public by some sleight of hand.

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