Abbey Plain Car Parking

Abbey Plain Car Parking

Letter And Images Kindly Provided By Nigel Ward

Mr Stuart CLARK – SBC


I attach seven images for your attention, taken at around 2:00pm this afternoon, Saturday 18th September 2010

Collectively, they identify a set of circumstances that I wish to draw to your attention. Namely, that around thirty cars were parked on the grass area known as Abbey Plain, adjacent to St. mary’s Church graveyard. They were not displaying any kind of permit or parking ticket as far as I could discern.

MY assumption was that the Abby Plain muyst be in use as an overflow area fpr the Abbey Car Park. You will see from the images that this was far from the case. the Abby Car Park was only around one-third full – or two-thirds empty, according to one’s philosophical outlook.

Clearly, the public interest may have been better served if the cars at the Abbey Palin had been encouraged to use the Abbey Car Park – and paid for the privilege.

Which brings me to the on-going matter of the Hawsker Lane.

Whenever I am able, I like to walk that way with my wife and dog, and each time I do, I see cars parked there, obstructing the southern lane of the highway and making a difficult T-junction more challenging than it need be. They should be in the Car Park, bringing in revenue and maikng the road a safer place.

So there are three issues here:

1) Encroachment on a sgreen space of historic provenance by automobiles.

2) Loss of revenue in the Abbey Car Park.

3) The dangerous and unregulated parking on the Hawsker Lane.

I have raised these last two issues previously. The problems persist.

Is it really too much that you and Nick West (to whom I have copied this email, with its attached images) could get your heads together and conjure up an easily and quickly implemented solution? You are both well experienced in traffic and parking techniques; surely this matter is not beyond you?

On two separate occasions, my wife and I have witnessed very near misses due to the encroachment onto the highway of cars and vans and even motor-homes.

Please make this an urgent priority – before somebody is injured (or worse).

And do let us retain the Abbey Plain as a traditional pleasant area of relaxation, undisturbed by motor vehicles and their concomitant emissions.

Thank you.

Kind reagrds,


Cc: Nick West – NYCC Highways

45 Responses to "Abbey Plain Car Parking"

  1. Tom, dick and harry  September 22, 2010 at 6:05 pm

    Wheres the harm in a bit of free parking. We all pay enough council tax to sbc, so im all for parking where I can for free. Wheres the harm

  2. Whitby Warrior  September 22, 2010 at 6:09 pm

    The Abbey plain used to be a free car park, does anyone know why it was closed off

    • John Field  November 2, 2011 at 9:06 pm

      The reason always given for closing the plain park at the time was that it is an archeologically sensitive area (anglo saxon graves in particular) and it is visually important. Seems reasonable to me, but I don’t live up there – not many people do, to be fair.

  3. The Man In The White  September 22, 2010 at 8:08 pm

    I park on hawsker lane, I pay my car tax, it's the nearest place I can park that is free, so you want me to pay every weekend so I can get 50 yards closer to my house?

    I will park where I want ta !

    • admin  September 22, 2010 at 9:31 pm

      I suppose the debate would be, should you contribute to the council coffers which benefits us all, or as a local should you get free parking ? Its a tough one. I know I try to dodge parking fees whenever possible but probably end up worse off in the long run as I keep getting tickets

      • Texas Ted  September 22, 2010 at 9:53 pm

        You Cheap skate Kilpatrick

    • Red Faced Roy  September 22, 2010 at 10:07 pm

      Why should you get free parking when us lot down here on Church street have to pay for the privelidge. Its not on.

  4. The Man In The White  September 23, 2010 at 7:28 am

    I live near church street and I refuse to pay, saying that, I have the parking attendants in my back pocket, and they would not dare give me a ticket! So there is no need to pay, how much is it for the carpark near grape lane? £700 ? . More money than sense if you pay that.

    • admin  September 23, 2010 at 3:19 pm

      How do you have the parking attendants in your back pocket ?? The council must love that statement. How you do it ?? Bribary ?

  5. The Man In The White  September 23, 2010 at 4:41 pm

    Can't say too much Glenn , you never know who is reading these forums, no bribes involved thou, just a case of a few favours owed.

  6. frank avey  September 26, 2010 at 9:59 am

    councils take enough money of tax payers without bleeding car owners ,just look at hospital parking,raises millions ,but it all goes who knows where,certainly not on the public even though hospital funding by the taxpayer has gone through the roof.

    councils can spend money like water because they can just grab more,they want to live in the real world not a taxpayer funded one.

  7. The Man In The White  September 28, 2010 at 4:50 pm

    Can I ask Nigel a question? Where do you park your car Nigel ?

  8. Nigel Ward  September 29, 2010 at 5:08 pm

    I don't drive any more.

    But I am happy to answer your questions, TMITWS. Why don't you join me for a coffee and a sticky bun? My treat.

    And for clarity, I believe that RESIDENTS should be able to park for FREE (providing their cars are taxed and insured) – but NOT in places where their inconsiderate parking could very easily result in somebody ending up in Hopsital (probably Scarborough, or James Cook), where their family/visitors will be subjected to more extortion.

    That Green Lane/Hawsker Lane T-junction is just such an accident waiting to happen.

    The Road Traffic Act and other legislation expressly forbids Councils from using on-street parking as a revenue-source – it is supposed to be for traffic-flow management only. Ruchard and I a preparing a comprehensively documented report on how NYCC and SBC have colluded to ignore that.

    If you have evidence of malpractice by SBC/NYCC parking officials – bring it to me.

  9. The Man In The White  September 30, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Unfortantly I can't meet you Nigel, as you would have a heart attack when u realised who I am.

    A week ago you wanted to take me to court never mind take me for a coffee!

  10. John Field  October 3, 2010 at 7:00 pm

    The green land around the Abbey has always been contested. There were repeated attempts to enclose it for private use, successfully resisted by the people of the town. One local minister went to prison briefly for his part in resisting the enclosure of the land. On the whole, if it's to be used for parking, then I'd favour an open debate and a public decision. The solution to our parking problems is not just parking wherever we want.

  11. angela  October 13, 2010 at 8:56 am

    On a recent visit, we parked on the abbey plain..and was made to pay for it too!

    I was very annoyed as I wanted to visit the Abbey as part of a theology course studying St Hilda, so not only did they want me to pay for parking there, but to go into a religious monument too! Needless to say we didnt go into the Abbey, why should we pay to see what we could over the wall ..perhaps the SBC man should not be worrying about a bit of plain field with a few cars on, but the kids climbing all over the Abbey ruins!!!

    You will find, as our town has, that if you charge for car parking, people will park elsewhere..if you want people to park safely in your car parks, stop ripping people off to park there! In the good old days, the car park at the Abbey was free, so was entry to it……

    Oh, and SBC guy, invest in a spellchecker!!!

    • admin  October 13, 2010 at 4:32 pm

      Hi Angela,

      Dont be too concerned about the chappy in the white suite. I will modertae this site a little more strictly than some of the others. At the moment I arent able to ban him and dont really wish to, but I hope to be installing buddypress software on the site soon which will give me still further control over who posts what. I hope your not put off using this site which is still in its infancy. We are aiming to make the site the success it deserves to be.

  12. The Man In The White  October 13, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    Hi Glenn , is Angela calling me the sbc guy,? I have just arrived home from a meeting which involved wine (I will put it down as expenses lol) and I can't make out whether she is on about me or not!

    • admin  October 13, 2010 at 11:30 pm

      I dont know mate, why dont you ask her. Why do I suddenly get this feeling of deja vue. Reminds me of when I used to tell the kids to tell their mum something because she wasnt speaking to me.

  13. angela  October 14, 2010 at 12:27 pm


    Your reply to me Oct 13th is in the wrong thread, hence the confusion, perhaps it should be moved to the debate 'Pete Budd..harmless eccentric?'

    I would hate TMITWS to think I was referring to him as the SBC deserves that haha!


  14. John Field  October 26, 2010 at 3:48 pm

    Why not privatise all car parking? I don't see any case for leaving it in the hands of the councils. It isn't a public service, like education or child protection or social housing. It is a service to individuals and businesses, so let them pay the market rate. If the owners could make a larger profit by turning the land to other purposes, so be it. And meanwhile the rest of the community would benefit by not having the council mess about with something it is so very bad at.

  15. admin  October 26, 2010 at 11:11 pm

    Good morning Nigel.

    Parking on verges is often a contentious issue and it can be difficult to prioritise measures to address this, particularly if the issue is one of amenity (Evening News article generally refers) rather than road safety.
    Staff resources are of course finite, and whilst I am hopeful that Green Lane and Hawsker Lane will ultimately be addressed there are numerous traffic regulation orders pending in the area including sites in Filey, Cayton Grosmont, Robin Hood`s Bay, Hinderwell and Whitby which will all have to be addressed shortly.

    For the information of recipients of your email I have copied my response to your last email on the topic below :

    Good morning Nigel.

    Thank you for your further email regarding road safety concerns on Hawsker Lane, and for copying me in to your correspondence with Fire & Rescue regarding emergency access to Upper Church Street.

    As previously confirmed Hawsker Lane and Green Lane are on our radar for future waiting restriction provision or amendment and, as you state, at peak periods the approaches to the Green Lane / Hawsker Lane junction can become congested which can also pose road safety concerns.
    Hawsker Lane has been widened over recent years to allow free flow two way traffic, however parked vehicles will of course defeat this and cause other problems as referred to in your correspondence.

    Traffic regulation orders can typically take 6 to 9 months to implement following the necessary consultation and legal advertising. I am still hopeful that we will be in a position to work up a proposal, probably involving seasonal restrictions, with a view to extended waiting restrictions being introduced next year, although this will depend on the way forward with the Whitby Park and Ride and the associated measures.

    Road safety is of course paramount, and I am sure you will appreciate that many of the traffic management/regulation proposals that were included in the Whitby parking consultation – for example, waiting restrictions at junctions, and on key routes such as the stretch of Prospect Hill opposite Meadowfields junction are safety related, and arguably of a greater priority, particularly given vehicular and pedestrian traffic volumes.

    Finally, I shall of course be pleased to attend any meetings with Fire and Rescue and the Police in respect of emergency access. The Whitby yards leading from Upper Church Street, and villages such as Staithes ( old village) and Robin Hood`s Bay are I`m sure, a particular challenge for the emergency services.

    Kind Regards,


  16. admin  October 28, 2010 at 9:34 pm

    Car Parking Shake Up On The Cards

    A PARKING shake-up is on the cards in Whitby as council bosses look to the future in easing congestion.
    Scarborough Council is the main provider of off-street parking in the resort where spaces are at a premium, especially during the holiday season.

    However, a long-term review is being called for by senior bureaucrats because of big changes ahead. A
    fter depending largely on tourism in recent years, Whitby is now also looking to the emerging off-shore wind industry to create jobs.

  17. The Man In The White  October 29, 2010 at 9:00 am

    According to Nigel , there are no plans for a wind farm!

    Well I can tell u that there are plans and the wheels are in motion. I will find out more tonight at the dinner/ dance that I am attending.

    • admin  October 30, 2010 at 12:01 am

      Hi Man in the white suite. Would you be able to do an article for the site about the dinner dance please. I feel its time you started to contribute some news worthy articles to the site.

      • The Man In The White suit  October 30, 2010 at 7:34 am

        Hi Glenn , you know I contribute loads to this site , half of Whitby is trying to guess who I am! I heard someone in the cafe say to his mate “I wonder if the man in the white suit has posted anything else?”.

        Right, back to the dinner dance,

        I was hoping to be on a certain persons table , so I could have A good chat but it turned out I was on the otherside of the room, but I did manage to have a chat with him later. The meal was delicious , a lovely slab of beef, I guzzled the wine down(youve got to when it’s free!)

        By the time the meal was finished and we started to mingle, I was a bit tipsy, but I did have a good chat, let’s just say Whitby harbour is going to be used a lot more than they originally planned, and the amount of jobs created will be frightening . All the plans will be revealed very soon , just a few more things to iron out.

        Ps anyone know the best way to get a red wine stain out of my brand new £700 tweed jacket?

        • admin  October 30, 2010 at 10:30 am

          Hi Again !!!,

          Yes you do contribute a lot, but I do often wish you would add a bit more substance to your posts in relation to Whitby issues, and leave out some of the direct sniping. Its fine to disagree (Wouldnt the world be a boring place if we all saw things the same way), and its good for the site to have a diversity of opinion, but just a bit less of your obvious dislike of Nigel and Pete would give you far more credibility. At the moment your just the man who posts on the site to do a bit of Nigel Bashing, Im sure there is far more to you than that, isnt there ? As for tweed Jackets, Bin it mate and get something far more casual.

        • angela  October 30, 2010 at 2:26 pm

          Vodka is the best way to deal with a red wine stain.

          Once youve drank the whole bottle…you couldnt care less about it!LOL!!

          No seriously, soak the stain with Vodka, then wash it should fetch it out.

  18. Nigel Ward  October 29, 2010 at 10:40 am

    I never said that there were no plans for a windfarm. The Dogger Bank project is a definite goer.

    All Whitby will see is what the BWEA describes as 'service' activities – ie. the grocery run.

    The big stuff (fabrication and heavy engineering – ie. the labour-intensive stuff with lots of full-time jobs) is going to South Humber.

    Personal sniping makes zero contribution to Whitby's well-being. It demeans an otherwise laudable forum for debate and information-sharing.

    I just had an hour with Jon Stokoe. One of our topics of discussion was this business of anonymous personal sniping. In my view, the man who hasn't the courage of his own convictions to post under his real name has nothing pertinent to offer. It would be a very great service to us all if Glenn were to insist on registration with real name, plus home address and telephone number – so that all contributors' identies could be verified. Addresses and telephone numbers, like email addresses, could remain confidential.

    What do you say, Glenn? The perceived integrity of your site is at stake.

    • admin  October 29, 2010 at 11:04 am

      Hi Nigel,

      I would agree that the "sniping" from behind a screen name is not the best way for anyone to do business. I believe it would be better for all parties if people had the courage to say who they actually are. After all we are all grown ups arent we.

      I am unsure of the best way to proceed. There are several ways I could force membership upon the site users who wanted to comment. I do however fear that having to register may deter some people from contributing.

      Also I am unsure what it would achieve as I would be left with a database of personal details that I would be unable to disclose on the site due to the data protection act.

      It is something I will monitor though and if the site does begin to become more popular then enforced membership is something we will have to look at again.

      I will continue to moderate The Man In The White Suite as best I can. I have removed several of his direct personal attacks already, and I will continue to keep a very close eye on the content of his contributions.

      Cheers – Glenn

      • The Man In The White  October 29, 2010 at 11:29 am

        Ok Glenn ,

        But I really think you should reconsider, it would only be a short process and I'm sure it wouldn't put people off and it would stop the likes of the man in the White suit hiding behind the computer screen.

        • admin  October 29, 2010 at 11:32 am

          No problem Nigel. I will keep a very close eye on it. If we ended up with several people like mitws then the site would become too difficult for me to watch so the registration would become inevitable. Whilst were trying to gain traffic to the site and especially contributers, I dont want to complicate things just yet.

          • Nigel Ward  October 29, 2010 at 12:01 pm

            I'm not looking to 'gag' anyone who has a positive contribution to offer. I am doing my best (by my own lights) to address as many of the issues as I can, and I am clear in my conscience that there are many injustices in the way Whitby is being (mal)administered.

            Those who disagree have a right to their opinions.

            But let's see less of the petty sniping and more constructive criticism and more positive suggestions towards a more equitable deal for our wonderful town.

          • admin  October 29, 2010 at 5:20 pm

            Ok, Ive had a bit more of a think about this one. I can probably tighten things up a bit more in terms of moderation. I will endeavour to only allow “On topic” comments from now on.

  19. angela  October 29, 2010 at 12:10 pm

    You certainly wont be getting my address and telephone number on a public domain. No other forum site asks for this…..and frankly I wouldnt see the point cos you could just make one up anyway. Just stick to peoples real names, but I dont see how you could inforce that either. BTW Angela is my real name….or is it/ bwuhahaha….methinks too many people take themselves far too seriously!

    PS….Nigel….you seem to be using other peoples names on here? Really confusing and not practical as you are not practising what you preach on this topic??

    • Nigel Ward  October 29, 2010 at 8:51 pm

      I do not post under a pseudonym. You are mistaken, Angela. What screen-name(s) were you attributing to me?

      I certainly wasn’t suggesting that Glenn should display the addresses and telephone numbers – to do so without the subscribers’ written consent would be a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998. But Glenn needs to protect himself against the risk of libel action against subscribers who make unsupportable defamatory remarks – as publisher, he is jointly liable.

      But legal issues aside for a moment, don’t you agree that a forum like this has most validity if it supports genuine debate amongst people who will treat each other with mutual respect? Disagreement is healthy; debate refines the issues. But personal attacks have no place in civilized debate.

      I work hard in Whitby’s interests. I have exposed a great deal of incompetence and moral corruption. I have learned a great deal about how to do that from PB and I thank him and respect him for that. He’s not the first man (or woman) to go through a bad patch in his life. When times are tough we can all need support sometimes. Time to lay off. Kicking a man when he is down is pretty despicable in my book.

      That’s my opinion. I am Nigel. My family name is Ward.

      Disagree with me if you wish. But do it in the open.

  20. peter anderson  October 30, 2010 at 9:49 am

    well said nigel

  21. angela  October 30, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    I am referring to the post above October 29 11.29 am. Admin adresses TMITWS as Nigel.
    Now there has been other threads with this issue in, thats why I was getting confused. If you want to solve this problem, you make it so no 2 people can have the same username.
    As to peoples real names, most of the forums I go on people dont use their real names and it isnt a problem, they dont ask for names and addresses either.
    Dont forget that our culture is built on freedom of speech too.
    Also, most sites on the internet are open to hacking, so any data held thereon could be stolen.
    All posts on here are moderated before becoming ‘public’ so I dont think you need to worry, most sites it just goes straight on. If that is a worry to Admin, he should write up some Terms and Conditions stating something like ‘all comments are those of the individual and may not be shared by the hosts of the site/admin’ etc etc But like I said, all posts are moderated so it shouldnt be a problem.

    My name is Minnie, my family name is Mouse :-)

    • admin  October 30, 2010 at 3:43 pm

      Angela, your sense of humour is almost as bad as mine (Note I said – “almost”)

      • angela  October 31, 2010 at 8:42 am

        I will take that as a compliment! ;-) lol

  22. admin  July 31, 2011 at 4:39 pm


    Very nearly one year on from my email alerting you to the dangerous parking on the hawsker Lane, close to the junction with Green lane, and over six months since you and Ged Lyth showed me your plans to rectify the situation to myself, Richard Ineson and Cllrs Steve and Mrs Amanda Smith, I witnessed a very frightening near miss again at that same location.

    Nothing has been done to prevent a serious injury or fatality occurring.

    I attach a photo taken moments after the incident to illustrate once more the nature of the problem. Vehicles turning right at the top of Green lane, into the Hawsker Lane, have no line of sight to oncoming vehicles proceeding westwards along Hawsker Lane, towards the Abbey – which, in turn, have no line of sight to vehicles coming in from Green Lane. Motor-cyclists are especially vulnerable. And, of course, cyclists.

    Is the painting of double yellow lines such a logistical nightmare that it genuinely requires ONE YEAR of the best efforts of the Area 3 team to achieve? Surely not.

    Please, please take action on this before you find yourself with a burden on your conscience.

    Kind regards,


  23. jgh  August 1, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Parking spaces are a limited resource. Limited resources have to be rationed in their use. How do you propose that parking spaces are rationed? The usual method of rationing limited resources is to charge for them.

  24. pete budd  August 3, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    There is no problem here, only a legitimate avoidance of charges.

  25. terry thwaites  February 13, 2013 at 2:11 pm

    When did the abbey car park open Was there not a very large pond there,So the question is,Were does all the water go that once went into it,Does it not go down the embankment towards those houses that collapsed,Or were drains laid to combat that,Thats the question im asking ?

    • admin  February 13, 2013 at 2:32 pm

      Hi Terry. The pond is still there.


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